# Does Obama understand the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960 "2008-09-17T06:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/61 "2008-09-17T19:51:59Z")
He did call for a compromise on wiretapping, as I recall, which pissed a lot of Dems off. No cite, as I’m at work with no time to look it up, but someone else may be able to provide it easily. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/62 "2008-09-17T19:57:40Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > My first reaction is that these are walks and singles in Double-A ball, whereas McCain has a few 30-homer seasons in the majors. I think he may also have had to put his neck on the line more often with his own party. Sure except he provably is not that guy any more. Ernie Banks (to extend the metaphor) was great in his day but I do not think anyone wants him in their lineup now. In the last 8 years McCain has sided with Bush 90% of the time. 100% of the time in the last year and 95% (if I remember what I read) the year before. Bush was positively awful to McCain in the primaries running up to the 2000 election and now McCain is embracing not only Bush and his policies but his people as well. McCain has flip-flopped [61 times](http://www.alternet.org/election08/90956/?page=entire) and most of those are recent issues (post 2000) with him lining up for the party/Bush. Sorry but just not the same guy willing to buck his party anymore. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/63 "2008-09-17T19:58:08Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > I’ve only glanced at these links, but so far I don’t see anything wildly controversial that would have brought the houses of Democratic pain down on Obama. If you have data to contradict that assertion, I’ll be happy to educate myself more on it and soften/retract my earlier statements. Thanks again. You’re welcome. I’d recommend investigating his Death Penalty Reform legislation further, and you will discover. . . > [@](#): > > . . . the bill itself aroused immediate opposition. There were Republicans who were automatically tough on crime and **Democrats who feared being thought soft on crime**. There were death penalty abolitionists, some of whom worried that Obama’s bill, by preventing the execution of innocents, would deprive them of their best argument. Vigorous opposition came from the police, too many of whom had become accustomed to using muscle to “solve” crimes. And the incoming governor, Rod Blagojevich, announced that he was against it. > > Obama had his work cut out for him. > > . . . > > The police proved to be Obama’s toughest opponent. Legislators tend to quail when cops say things like, “This means we won’t be able to protect your children.” The police tried to limit the videotaping to confessions, but Obama, knowing that the beatings were most likely to occur during questioning, fought – successfully – to keep interrogations included in the required videotaping. > > By showing officers that he shared many of their concerns, even going so far as to help pass other legislation they wanted, he was able to quiet the fears of many. > > **Obama proved persuasive enough that the bill passed both houses of the legislature, the Senate by an incredible 35 to 0**. Then he talked Blagojevich into signing the bill, making Illinois the first state to require such videotaping. > > . . . > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html) ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/64 "2008-09-17T19:59:43Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re welcome. I’d recommend investigating his Death Penalty Reform legislation further, and you will discover. . . Well done. I’ll check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/65 "2008-09-17T19:59:44Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > He did call for a compromise on wiretapping, as I recall, which pissed a lot of Dems off. No cite, as I’m at work with no time to look it up, but someone else may be able to provide it easily. More than a compromise, IMHO. But, then, I’m one of those pissed-off people. Not that it changes my support for Obama in the least, because I’m not so stupid as to think that a politician will never have to compromise. Anyway, [some](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/23/barackobama.uselections20081) [cites](http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/02/america/obama.php). ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/66 "2008-09-17T20:01:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Sure except he provably is not that guy any more. Ernie Banks (to extend the metaphor) was great in his day but I do not think anyone wants him in their lineup now. > > In the last 8 years McCain has sided with Bush 90% of the time. 100% of the time in the last year and 95% (if I remember what I read) the year before. Bush was positively awful to McCain in the primaries running up to the 2000 election and now McCain is embracing not only Bush and his policies but his people as well. McCain has flip-flopped [61 times](http://www.alternet.org/election08/90956/?page=entire) and most of those are recent issues (post 2000) with him lining up for the party/Bush. > > Sorry but just not the same guy willing to buck his party anymore. Not even close. But ohhh…could Ernie belt them out in his prime. That was a thing of beauty to watch. Banks. Williams. Santo. Beckert. Sob. Sniff. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/67 "2008-09-17T20:02:32Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > There’s a few other things I like about the guy. I thought (think?) his approach to immigration reform was/is sensible. And it showed me that he had some onions, too, because it went against all the ranting and raving of the Republican majority. They HATED him for that. Absolutely hated him. You mean the immigration bill that he sponsored and is now against? I agree it was reasonable, and in fact this was one of Bush’s better moments. It’s too bad the Republicans killed it, and that McCain now seems to be under their control. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/68 "2008-09-17T20:08:29Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > More than a compromise, IMHO. But, then, I’m one of those pissed-off people. Not that it changes my support for Obama in the least, because I’m not so stupid as to think that a politician will never have to compromise. > > Anyway, [some](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/23/barackobama.uselections20081) [cites](http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/02/america/obama.php). I, too, am one of the people who was royally pissed off about his capitulation on FISA. However, if you can believe it, it’s one of the things that actually impresses me most about him. He proved that he was actually a _thoughtful legislator_ who considered more than just his current ratings appeal when making decisions that will impact this country profoundly. I wish we could have held out, but he made me understand that we were really between a rock and a hard place, and that it was a compromise that needed to be made at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/69 "2008-09-17T20:22:38Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I, too, am one of the people who was royally pissed off about his capitulation on FISA. However, if you can believe it, it’s one of the things that actually impresses me most about him. He proved that he was actually a _thoughtful legislator_ who considered more than just his current ratings appeal when making decisions that will impact this country profoundly. I wish we could have held out, but he made me understand that we were really between a rock and a hard place, and that it was a compromise that needed to be made at that time. Eh…count me as another royally pissed off person over FISA. I’d be curious to see what you read that brought you to understand Obama had no choice and did the best that could be done under the circumstances. As noted I grant that politicians must be able to compromise but this one to me went down under “principled stand” in my head and I was very disappointed at his ultimate capitulation. He’s still miles ahead of McCain in my view so he did not lose my vote over this which I suspected was his analysis…those people likely to be pissed over FISA are solidly in his court anyway and he could afford it. Smart politics perhaps but doesn’t mean I like it. Sorry for the hijack…just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/70 "2008-09-17T20:53:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Eh…count me as another royally pissed off person over FISA. I’d be curious to see what you read that brought you to understand Obama had no choice and did the best that could be done under the circumstances. As noted I grant that politicians must be able to compromise but this one to me went down under “principled stand” in my head and I was very disappointed at his ultimate capitulation. > > He’s still miles ahead of McCain in my view so he did not lose my vote over this which I suspected was his analysis…those people likely to be pissed over FISA are solidly in his court anyway and he could afford it. Smart politics perhaps but doesn’t mean I like it. > > Sorry for the hijack…just curious. [This](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/20/155839/542). > [@Barack Obama](#): > > . . . > > Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but **the President’s illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance – making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people**. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future. It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, **and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going forward**. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect America Act. > > “ **It is not all that I would want**. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with **a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives – and the liberty – of the American people**.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/71 "2008-09-17T23:47:40Z")
**Idaho** , 1. Universal healthcare is not the same as single payor. Are you against having everyone in this country having some form of health insurance including those forms currently available? 2. As has been pointed out, today’s McCain is a far cry from the old image we had of him. And how much of that image was reality is an open question. I do think that he was, once upon a time, willing to take on some part flak as it played well to his local needs. But now he is willing to completely pander to the hardest of the hardcore. On the backbone test he has had now several innings of strike-outs. I’ll take Obama’s solid run of singles and doubles. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/72 "2008-09-18T00:13:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Idaho** , > > 1. Universal healthcare is not the same as single payor. Are you against having everyone in this country having some form of health insurance including those forms currently available? > > 2. As has been pointed out, today’s McCain is a far cry from the old image we had of him. And how much of that image was reality is an open question. I do think that he was, once upon a time, willing to take on some part flak as it played well to his local needs. But now he is willing to completely pander to the hardest of the hardcore. On the backbone test he has had now several innings of strike-outs. I’ll take Obama’s solid run of singles and doubles. 1. Of course I’m not against everyone having some form of health insurance. I’m very, very for it. For example, I would like to buy an insurance policy that - Protects me and my wife from catastrophic illness. Probably cancer, since we have some family history of that - Protects our children from catastrophic illness. And that’s about it. We don’t need maternity care, dental care, mental health care, drug coverage, and a billion other things. If I were picking a menu I would click ‘Deselect’ on those items. I am willing to pay a very low premium for a very high deductible. And I guarantee that there are insurance companies that could cook up a policy for me in about 30 seconds using existing data. Problem is, I can’t purchase it. A thicket of local and national regulation prevents it. That’s only one, tiny example of the type of reform I want to see in healthcare. 1. I’ve heard the arguments. I see the noise in the signal-to-noise ratio myself. The dude goes off the rails with unflattering frequency. I guess it’s still a judgement call that we both shall make. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, the ‘reaching-across-the-aisle’ track record was below the line, smaller potatoes, nice-to-have stuff for me. I liked Shayna’s links and I’ll go read up on them. That was some good education for me that came from this thread. But it won’t be enough to move the needle for me. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/73 "2008-09-18T01:26:38Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Terrific. I’d be glad to read them. Thanks for the quick reply. > > My first reaction is that these are walks and singles in Double-A ball, whereas McCain has a few 30-homer seasons in the majors. I think he may also have had to put his neck on the line more often with his own party. > > I’ve only glanced at these links, but so far I don’t see anything wildly controversial that would have brought the houses of Democratic pain down on Obama. If you have data to contradict that assertion, I’ll be happy to educate myself more on it and soften/retract my earlier statements. Thanks again. You know, year 2000 McCain was a decent dude. I’d have probably voted for him. This recent creation isn’t even that old McCain. He’s a shell of his former self and sometimes little slivers of it come out, which is disappointing because you wonder what it have been like if he didn’t sell himself out. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/74 "2008-09-18T01:50:56Z")
He was a decent dude every time he got caught. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/75 "2008-09-18T04:46:20Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > 1. I’ve heard the arguments. I see the noise in the signal-to-noise ratio myself. The dude goes off the rails with unflattering frequency. I guess it’s still a judgement call that we both shall make. This is where you lose me. The best you have is a “feeling” that McCain is a stand-up dude and a maverick willing to reach across the aisle and buck his party. This despite an avalanche of evidence to the contrary. Was McCain once that guy? Yeah, to some extent. But he has not been that guy for a long time. This is provable as has been cited here and can be cited more and more if you like. At the end of the day you will pull the lever for whomever you want for whatever reason you want…who has the best haircut if that is your criteria. You seem a thoughtful sort and honest about your stance though so I guess I am asking for something more than your gut feeling as a basis that McCain should be the guy. Of course you do not owe it to us and of course whatever you post will likely be picked apart but this is GD on the SDMB…it’s what we do here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/76 "2008-09-18T07:24:51Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > And that’s about it. We don’t need maternity care, dental care, mental health care, drug coverage, and a billion other things. If I were picking a menu I would click ‘Deselect’ on those items. This was one place where Clinton had it over Obama. I understand your position - my daughter is in a very similar one. But healthcare works best as a national pool (the bigger the pool, the more the risk is spread.) When you get to be my age you will feel very differently about the coverage you want. You can think of the money you’d pay now under her plan as an investment in your future. Now, she was talking about people being out of the system, but the principle is similar. Not that you shouldn’t pay less today than I do, being healthier. I’m curious why you think you are immune from several expensive problems cropping up at once. It happens even to people who live healthily. Now, if you are rich enough to be able to afford all this care, I withdraw my objection. You are paying list price, not the discounted prices negotiated by insurance companies, and so are subsidizing everyone else. Cool with me. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/77 "2008-09-18T13:15:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > This was one place where Clinton had it over Obama. I understand your position - my daughter is in a very similar one. But healthcare works best as a national pool (the bigger the pool, the more the risk is spread.) When you get to be my age you will feel very differently about the coverage you want. You can think of the money you’d pay now under her plan as an investment in your future. Now, she was talking about people being out of the system, but the principle is similar. > > Not that you shouldn’t pay less today than I do, being healthier. > > I’m curious why you think you are immune from several expensive problems cropping up at once. It happens even to people who live healthily. > > Now, if you are rich enough to be able to afford all this care, I withdraw my objection. You are paying list price, not the discounted prices negotiated by insurance companies, and so are subsidizing everyone else. Cool with me. I am probably at your age. Maybe even past it. At least, it feels that way to me. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/78 "2008-09-18T13:22:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is where you lose me. > > The best you have is a “feeling” that McCain is a stand-up dude and a maverick willing to reach across the aisle and buck his party. This despite an avalanche of evidence to the contrary. Was McCain once that guy? Yeah, to some extent. But he has not been that guy for a long time. This is provable as has been cited here and can be cited more and more if you like. > > At the end of the day you will pull the lever for whomever you want for whatever reason you want…who has the best haircut if that is your criteria. You seem a thoughtful sort and honest about your stance though so I guess I am asking for something more than your gut feeling as a basis that McCain should be the guy. Of course you do not owe it to us and of course whatever you post will likely be picked apart but this is GD on the SDMB…it’s what we do here. 😉 Thanks for the feedback. Here’s a short, borderline-flippant summary of what I think has transpired. Me: I want smaller government, lower taxes, and free markets. McCain has some evidence of actually delivering that in his past. And that’s already more than 99% of any Congressman in history. The Board: Maybe. But that was in the past. He won’t do it anymore. He’s changed. Obama is smart and decent. If smaller government, lower taxes, and free markets are the right answer, he’ll do it. Me: Maybe. I don’t see any evidence of it. In fact, I see a lot of talk by Obama to the contrary that frightens me. At least there is some evidence that McCain has actually done it. The Board: Don’t worry. If it’s the right answer, Obama will do it. And you shouldn’t trust McCain to do it anyway. He’s become a lapdog of the Republican Party. In summary, vote for Obama. Sorry, still not enough. But I enjoyed the debate. Still going with the cantankerous ex-divorcee and the chick with the shotgun. At least for now. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/79 "2008-09-18T13:57:21Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Me: I want smaller government, lower taxes, and free markets. McCain has some evidence of actually delivering that in his past. And that’s already more than 99% of any Congressman in history. Cite? Currently that does not seem to be the case: > [@](#): > > President Bush has presided over the largest overall increase in inflation-adjusted federal spending since Lyndon B. Johnson. Even after excluding spending on defense and homeland security, Bush is still the biggest-spending president in 30 years. > > SOURCE: [Cato Institute: May, 2005](http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3750) > [@](#): > > President Bush’s second-term agenda would expand not only the size of the federal government but also its influence over the lives of millions of Americans by imposing new national restrictions on high schools, court cases and marriages. > > In a clear break from Republican campaigns of the 1990s to downsize government and devolve power to the states, Bush is fostering what amounts to an era of new federalism in which the national government shapes, not shrinks, programs and institutions to comport with various conservative ideals, according to Republicans inside and outside the White House. > > SOURCE: [Washington Post: Februray 9, 2005](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9307-2005Feb8.html) > [@](#): > > Bush has outspent Clinton by a mile. With government spending still out of control, the gap between where we are and where a disciplined nation could have been is getting bigger and bigger. > > With a recession looming, the policy implications of the spending explosion are serious. If a deep recession occurs, we will have less wiggle room. > > To see how different the world could have been, I gathered data from a number of sources and ran an alternative history. > > \ > > The difference between that spending path and the one we are on is huge. Today, we expect federal spending in 2008 will be $2.9 trillion. According to the alternative history, spending would be $2.5 trillion. > > \ > > Think of it this way. If we now had the lower spending levels that Bush inherited, we could extend his tax cuts, repeal the alternative minimum tax, enact the current stimulus package, and still have a 10-year budget surplus of $1.9 trillion. And, remember, that allows spending to be adjusted up for the Iraq war and the war against terrorists. > > SOURCE: [Bloomberg: Februrary 11, 2008](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=azGzPwIGPlR4&refer=columnist_hassett) So Bush is a train wreck. We all know this. Now here is your guy who will bring your wished for government. Mind you this your guy talking about himself and how he sees it. Add in McCain’s record of voting with Bush 90% of the time as an actual record. Sorry but still not seeing where your faith comes from. > [@](#): > > RUSSERT: The fact is you are different than George Bush. > > SEN. McCAIN: No. No. I-the fact is that I’m different but the fact is that I have agreed with President Bush far more than I have disagreed. And on the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day, I’ve been totally in agreement and support of President Bush. > > \ > > “But,” he [McCain] quickly added, “I will argue my conservative record voting with anyone’s, and I will also submit that my support for President Bush has been active and very impassioned on issues that are important to the American people. And I’m particularly talking about the war on terror, the war in Iraq, national security, national defense, support of men and women in the military, fiscal discipline, a number of other issues. So I strongly disagree with any assertion that I’ve been more at odds with the president of the United States than I have been in agreement with him.” > > SOURCE: [Huffington Post: June 12, 2008](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/12/mccain-2005-i-totally-sup_n_106733.html) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960/80 "2008-09-18T14:45:50Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > The Board: Maybe. But that was in the past. He won’t do it anymore. He’s changed. Obama is smart and decent. If smaller government, lower taxes, and free markets are the right answer, he’ll do it. > > Me: Maybe. I don’t see any evidence of it. In fact, I see a lot of talk by Obama to the contrary that frightens me. As for Obama granted he does not have the same tenure in office as McCain does to be able to pick over his record. But we do have evidence of who Obama is as has been cited up-thread and in other places. Of the two Obama is clearly the more intelligent. That is not a partisan swipe but an obvious truth. IIRC McCain graduated in the bottom 5 (not 5%…5) from the Naval Academy. Obama was the first African-American editor of the Harvard Law Review. His intellectual curiosity is apparent as is McCain’s lack of it (e.g. McCain admits he cannot even send an e-mail and has mentioned he just is not up on economics…a rather glaring gap in a Presidential candidate and we’ve seen what a disaster that lack amounts to in Bush). Additionally we noted up-thread the differences between who Obama picks as his advisors compared to McCain. That says a lot about how we think they might form their cabinet if they gain office and the difference is stark. Further, you seem to imply that democratic policies are opposed to good governance (smaller government, free markets, lower taxes). However, as I detailed in [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=483657) history does not bear out that democrats are worse than republicans when it comes to the health of the economy. Indeed the reverse is true and unless you are Warren Buffet or the head of Halliburton the vast majority of Americans prosper noticeably better under Democrats than Republicans. Again the difference is rather stark and even for the very well off they do better too. So standing the two men together I am finding it difficult to see any way to choose McCain over Obama unless you are a far right social conservative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-obama-understand-the-economy/463960.md?page=5)