# Does old-fashioned, rigorous journalism still go on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771 "2018-04-04T01:36:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/21 "2018-04-04T19:13:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’d urge anyone who is so inclined to watch All the President’s Men again, or (OMG!) for the first time. I’ve watched it at least eight times in the last year. Exciting and inspiring. And all before computers, cell phones, or the internet. If you liked that you might also like [The Post](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_(film)) (about the Pentagon Papers back in the 70’s). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/22 "2018-04-04T19:22:01Z")
Some of the best IR I’ve seen in recent years as been in [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/23 "2018-04-04T19:56:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you liked that you might also like [The Post](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_(film)) (about the Pentagon Papers back in the 70’s). Oh yes. I’m waiting for it to be available on streaming. _Spotlight_, with character Ben Bradlee Jr. at the _Boston Globe_, was good. It’s about priestly child abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/24 "2018-04-04T20:02:10Z")
The _Washington Post_’s reporting on the Roy Moore scandal is another recent example that comes to mind: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/08/how-washington-post-journalists-broke-the-story-of-allegations-against-roy-moore/?utm\_term=.2aa767adcc95](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/08/how-washington-post-journalists-broke-the-story-of-allegations-against-roy-moore/?utm_term=.2aa767adcc95) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/25 "2018-04-04T20:32:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not sure that it actually is any rarer now. It might just look that way because there’s now so much more bleeding-edge breaking news and biased propaganda that it gets lost. Yeah, that was my thought, too. It’s not like we were inundated with “All the President’s Men” type reporting 50 years ago, either. Really good investigative reporting is rare, but I doubt it’s rarer now than it was in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/26 "2018-04-05T23:08:41Z")
Old-fashioned legwork journalism is expensive and decreasingly few papers want to fund it now that they are being hollowed out and their advertising revenue is going to the internet and their subscription base is collapsing. Sometimes the rest of the world just goes ‘meeah!’ even when they do eventually break the story. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/27 "2018-04-06T01:03:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The problem is the money is no longer there. Once upon a time having a NYT subscription was super common. Today not as many do and cash cows like classifieds are mostly gone. When your budget shrinks it is hard to maintain a robust editorial staff and reporters who can spend six months on one story. I’m delighted to report that the[NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/business/new-york-times-company-earnings.html) is enjoying healthy increases in circulation. Thanks to its digital subscriptions, the _Times_ reported overall subscription revenue of $1 billion in 2017. While it’s true revenue from print ads is down, subscriptions more than compensated. I The best part of all this? According to [CNN](http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/03/media/new-york-times-subscriber-growth/index.html), the increase was due to concern and curiosity about Donald Trump–you know, the guy who said the Times was failing. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/28 "2018-04-06T01:15:22Z")
I think the best news media right now are the NYT, WaPo, WSJ, NPR, Al Jazeera, the Atlantic, and a few others. I’ve been astonished and very heartened at how NYT and WaPo especially found their voices after the election and became real heavy hitters again. They are in a healthy competition with each other and it shows. I subscribe online these days, I can’t deal with all the paper although I love sitting down with the Sunday New York Times in a cafe . … takes me back to olden times. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/29 "2018-04-06T01:35:50Z")
I must add The New Yorker to the list of excellent journalism media outlets. They have a reputation – deservedly so – for doing hard, in-depth investigative work. They have broken and documented so many important stories for decades. I’ve subscribed to the magazine for nearly 40 years. They haven’t let me down yet. A tiny sampling: [Donald Rumsfeld and his Selective Intelligence](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/05/12/selective-intelligence) [Stovepiping Intelligence to Go to War in Iraq](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/10/27/the-stovepipe) [Darrell Issa](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/11/22/uncomfortable-climate) [Carl Icahn](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/28/carl-icahns-failed-raid-on-washington) [Koch Brothers (2010)](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/08/30/covert-operations) [Koch Brothers (2016)](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/new-koch) And much more recently… [Mexico Agrees to Pay for Trump’s Psychiatric Care](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/mexico-agrees-to-pay-for-trumps-psychiatric-care) (Borowitz) These are just a very few pieces of their excellent work, as I know many here are already aware. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/30 "2018-04-06T01:53:54Z")
Aside from _The Washington Post_, _The New York Times_, _The Wall Street Journal_, and various magazine publications such as _The New Yorker_, _The Atlantic_, and _Rolling Stone_, there is _[ProPublica.org](http://ProPublica.org)_ which supports independent investigative journalism and partners with the above outlets and others to support research and investigation. And local news rags, while generally not having the means to cover national stories, investigate local government and business which can often reveal larger scale corruption. There is plenty of great investigative journalism going on, even if it seems choked at times by media consolidation and overwhelmed by twittering idiocy. Investigative journalism is second to education in underregarded and unrewarded professions serving the overall public interest, and I say this as someone skeptical of media outlets in general. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/31 "2018-04-06T02:01:30Z")
Oh. I would add Reuters to this growing list. They’re as close to, “just the facts, ma’am,” as I’ve found for breaking news. Also the AP. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/32 "2018-04-06T02:09:56Z")
Borowitz is funny as hell, but he’s not an investigative journalist. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/33 "2018-04-06T02:16:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Borowitz is funny as hell, but he’s not an investigative journalist. Well aware. Levity can be a good thing, though. Why do you suppose I labeled it, ‘Borowitz’? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/34 "2018-04-06T03:04:24Z")
If it helps, crap journalism (aka yellow journalism) isn’t anything new either. We just see it more with the advent of technology. So things are pretty much as they always were. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/35 "2018-04-06T08:08:57Z")
I’d add the CBC to this list. They regularly do long-form investigative journalism on their national newscast, and they have several other investigative programs such as Marketplace. CTV also has the long-running investigative program W5. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/36 "2018-04-06T11:02:49Z")
[Longform.org](http://Longform.org) has an extensive listing of online articles, which is updated daily. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/37 "2018-04-06T14:04:45Z")
I am heartened by these comments. Gotta have something to hang on to. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/38 "2018-04-06T14:22:45Z")
Much to my, and many others surprise, _Teen Vogue_ emerged as a source of high quality journalism since at least 2016 and they’ve kept it up since. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/39 "2018-04-06T20:27:50Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I am heartened by these comments. Gotta have something to hang on to. Ditto this. I worked at a small newspaper decades ago and until recently thought that I loved newspapers. But the reality is that I love reporting and we need to financially support great reporters and reporting organizations still beating the bushes for information that society’s and government’s worst abusers don’t want us finding out. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771/40 "2018-04-06T20:50:56Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > … we need to financially support great reporters and reporting organizations still beating the bushes for information that society’s and government’s worst abusers don’t want us finding out. It seems to me that a change in recent years in journalism has seen newspapers and the like move from stand-alone profitable businesses to more of a charity operation or something of that nature. I’ve even had one of my liberal friends describe it to me in that sense: “I subscribed to the NYT because I thought they were doing good work and could use the financial support.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-old-fashioned-rigorous-journalism-still-go-on/811771.md?page=3)