# Does one use ordinal numbers in commercial writing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414 "2013-12-03T23:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/1 "2013-12-03T23:02:52Z")
Need answer fast! Actually, I do. I’m proofreading a brochure for a friend and the dates in it are as so: Tuesday, April 01st, 2014. To my eyes, this is an odd combination of styles. In particular, I was taught that you don’t use ordinal numbers in formal writing. I am inclined to change the dates to: Tuesday, April 1, 2014. Would you agree? Is there a different rule for British English, I am wondering? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/2 "2013-12-04T00:38:48Z")
I cannot ever remember seeing this and I can’t think of any style that uses this. I’ve also never seen this in a British text, but I don’t know much about non-American style guides. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/3 "2013-12-04T01:00:23Z")
In British English, it would be “1 April”. “1st April” would be acceptable, but might seem a bit old-fashioned. “01 April” or “01st April” would be regarded as very odd. You generally wouldn’t mention the day of the week unless, in the context, it was relevant that the date fell on that particular day. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/4 "2013-12-04T01:09:21Z")
Sure it’s not a joke? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/5 "2013-12-04T01:27:31Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Need answer fast! Actually, I do. I’m proofreading a brochure for a friend and the dates in it are as so: Tuesday, April 01st, 2014. To my eyes, this is an odd combination of styles. In particular, I was taught that you don’t use ordinal numbers in formal writing. > > I am inclined to change the dates to: Tuesday, April 1, 2014. Would you agree? Is there a different rule for British English, I am wondering? A don’t have a formal answer, but I’ve never seen 01st as a date, It would be 1st (although as mentioned this seems to be getting rarer) And as already mentioned - I’d leave out Tuesday (unless it was important to the meaning of the writing) And as a further side note - can you blardy 'Merkins learn to write a date properly? it is supposed to be dd/mm/yyyy - totally logical small\>bigger\>biggest I hate it when I have to try and decipher if 4/6/2013 is 4th June or 6th April (and yes - this did cause me upset with a warranty once) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/6 "2013-12-04T01:50:32Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And as a further side note - can you blardy 'Merkins learn to write a date properly? it is supposed to be dd/mm/yyyy - totally logical small\>bigger\>biggest Oh, sure. Right after we go metric. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/7 "2013-12-04T02:00:11Z")
The international standard, when using just numbers for a date, is yyyy/mm/dd. Neither the Yanks nor the Limeys are doing it right. I avoid numbers-only when I can, and use 3 letters for the month. No one’s confused by 3 Dec 2013. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/8 "2013-12-04T02:19:00Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And as a further side note - can you blardy 'Merkins learn to write a date properly? it is supposed to be dd/mm/yyyy - totally logical small\>bigger\>biggest Dear Brits, Your second-rate nation has been an international joke since you lost your Empire. Stop trying to pretend that anything you do has any meaning or, worse, should be copied or be a standard. Man up and live with your total insignificance. Sincerely, The Leaders of the World ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/9 "2013-12-04T02:20:11Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And as a further side note - can you blardy 'Merkins learn to write a date properly? it is supposed to be dd/mm/yyyy - totally logical small\>bigger\>biggest I don’t think I would call that “totally logical” given that the rest of our numbers go in the reverse order. I think yyyy/mm/dd is probably the “totally logical” format and your format is just “logical” but not “totally” ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/10 "2013-12-04T03:43:28Z")
I assume we Americans write it mm/dd/yy is because that’s the way we right it out, “December 3, 2013.” So that is perfectly logical. There can clearly be more than one conflicting way to do things both of which are logical. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/11 "2013-12-04T04:28:31Z")
Whichever you use, please be consistent. I filled out an application for something in Japan once and I had to pay close attention because whether they wanted mm/dd/yyyy or yyyy/mm/dd depending on exactly which section of the form I was in. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/12 "2013-12-04T04:55:58Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Dear Brits, > > Your second-rate nation has been an international joke since you lost your Empire. Stop trying to pretend that anything you do has any meaning or, worse, should be copied or be a standard. Man up and live with your total insignificance. > > Sincerely, > The Leaders of the World Couldn’t agree with you more on the Brits thing… for me, I come from the “race” that leads from the bottom of the world…😃 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/13 "2013-12-04T07:54:48Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > for me, I come from the “race” that leads from the bottom of the world…😃 So in your half of the world, would that be pp/ɯɯ/ʎʎʎʎ or ʎʎʎʎ/ɯɯ/pp or ʎʎʎʎ/pp/ɯɯ? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/14 "2013-12-04T07:55:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Tuesday, April 01st, 2014 That looks very odd, but because of teh leading zero, not eh ordinal. I have never heard, and do not believe,that one should never use ordinal numbers in formal writing. As for the precise formatting of dates, that is more a matter for house styles rather than more universal rules. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/15 "2013-12-04T08:05:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Dear Brits, > > Your second-rate nation has been an international joke since you lost your Empire. Stop trying to pretend that anything you do has any meaning or, worse, should be copied or be a standard. Man up and live with your total insignificance. > > Sincerely, > The Leaders of the World Dear Americans. Stop trying to impose your idiosyncrasies on the rest of us, even as your short-lived empire crumbles from within. Never mind a sensible date format, you are so resistant to rational change that you won’t even use the metric system, or dollar coins, or sales tax included in the posted price, or banknotes where the different values actually look distinctive. Get with the modern world. Sincerely, Not just Britain, but all the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/16 "2013-12-04T08:41:25Z")
I agree it’s the leading zero in the OP’s example that makes it look really odd. Tuesday April 1st = all right, although I would probably more likely write “Tuesday 1st April” (omitting the name of the day unless it really needed to be there). As for logic and metrication, Britain is stuck in the middle, although perhaps the very young people aren’t. What I mean is we buy fruit and veg by the kilo, but I think most of us think of our own weight in stones and pounds, and petrol is sold by the litre but distances on road signs are given in miles. And so on. Ah wait, the USA is odd too - you got as far as having dollars sensibly divisible by 100, but you think of weights in pounds and use fluid oz instead of litres … Oh, it’s all too much. And measuring butter in “sticks” - most odd. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/17 "2013-12-04T08:49:48Z")
And in a recipe - ‘cups’ for goodness sake. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/18 "2013-12-04T11:13:25Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So in your half of the world, would that be > pp/ɯɯ/ʎʎʎʎ or ʎʎʎʎ/ɯɯ/pp or ʎʎʎʎ/pp/ɯɯ? The correct, antipodean answer to such a question… work it out yourself you evil bastard…'cus it’s making my head hurt:D ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/19 "2013-12-04T12:08:14Z")
Yay, I started an international brawl! Well, that’s Wednesday’s goal achieved early; whatever shall I do this afternoon? Right, so I decided on Tuesday, April 1st, 2014 in the end. To make things as mixed-up as possible, this blardy 'Merkin was casting a trained native speaker eye over English written by blardy Germans for a blardy international audience. I decided to stick to British English as far as I could throughout in the interests of consistency. I know that the date in that format is not exactly expressed in pristine British English, but what the hell. It’s clear, and it doesn’t irk me any longer with that odd leading zero, so I’m going to call it as close enough. Measurement, am I right?? I’m all the time consulting a conversion book I have for things like how many grams a stick of butter works out to be and what the difference between a cup of milk and a cup of flour in metric is. At least I don’t have to worry about the difference between mph and kph on the Autobahn. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414/20 "2013-12-04T12:21:32Z")
I think your solution is fine for your writing. For completeness, I offer this depiction of ISO 8601 for writing dates as numbers: [XKCD ISO 8601 Public Service Announcement](http://xkcd.com/1179/) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-one-use-ordinal-numbers-in-commercial-writing/675414.md?page=2)