# Does Patrick Buchanan get a bad rap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538 "2003-10-30T23:10:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/21 "2003-11-08T01:40:11Z")
On [this](http://www.mindlesscrap.com/quotes/political.htm) page, you will find the following PB quote: **"Why are we more shocked when a dozen people are killed in Vilnius than by a massacre in Burundi? Because they are white people. That’s who we are. That’s where America comes from."** So, **pizzabrat** , I would say the answer is yes, fun dancing or not. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/22 "2003-11-08T03:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > “Why are we more shocked when a dozen people are killed in Vilnius than by a massacre in Burundi? Because they are white people. That’s who we are. That’s where America comes from.” Well that’s obviously racist; rather than culturalist as the OP suggested. And plain innaccurate, too. I’m not white and I’m probably more American than he is. Seeing as how he’s Catholic, I’ll bet his ancestors got over here much later than mine did. And I don’t even know where Vilnius is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/23 "2003-11-08T03:56:37Z")
> [@](#): > > And I don’t even know where Vilnius is. Capitol of Lithuania. Note the reference to your remark about zany Europeans who dance for fun-- I’d guess Lithuanians would be in that category. The quote was concerning the fading days of the USSR when the seveal Lithuanian protesters were killed by the authorities, FYI. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/24 "2003-11-08T04:38:01Z")
Here’s a great bit on Buchanan: [http://www.netacc.net/~fairplay/chapter.htm](http://www.netacc.net/~fairplay/chapter.htm) Money quote: "Buchanan has frequently been accused of racism, and I happen to think he’s suffered a lot of bum raps on that score. But there is poetic justice in those bum raps, because his simplistic nationalism is every bit as ugly as racism, and in exactly the same way. Encouraging people to “buy American” is no different in principle from encouraging people to “buy white.” ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/25 "2003-11-08T08:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\* > I know Buchanan wrote a book I’ve never read, _A Republic, Not an Empire,_ which argues the U.S. should have stayed out of World War II. I can see how that attitude would disgust Jews, but does it make him an anti-semite? What he is, is a consistent isolationist. He is also opposed to the current U.S. military presence in the Middle East. Is that necessarily because we are there to, among other things, defend Israel? > \*\* Frankly, I agree with him on much of this. I’m not into “holocaust-denial”, but I definitely believe the US should have stayed out of the European theatre of WW2. And I also agree that currect US policy in the Middle East is atrocious, that interventionism in that region is a direct cause of the 9-11 terror attacks, and that our alliance with Israel has been nothing but trouble and should be immediately scrapped. Buchanan and I are both isolationists. I don’t know about the nuances of Pat’s opinion, but my take has always been that military/political isolationism is a consistent theory for how government ought to behave with the limited power it was granted under our Constitution to make war for our defense. Unlike most of the protesters to this latest war, I don’t pick and choose which interventionist wars I like or don’t like, I argue that they’re all unjustified unless part of a _necessary_ defense. I suppose Pat thinks the same. And none of that necessarily implies racism or anti-Semitism. As for this quote: > [@](#): > > “Why are we more shocked when a dozen people are killed in Vilnius than by a massacre in Burundi? Because they are white people. That’s who we are. That’s where America comes from.” That doesn’t seem to imply that the _speaker_ is racist. Rather it seems to say that residual racism in America leads to a greater concern when “white” people are killed than when “black” people are. Well, doesn’t that actually sound pretty accurate? The violence encountered on a daily basis by a black student at Cooley High on 6 Mile Rd in Detroit gets no attention whatsoever by the nat’l media, but a bunch of suburban white kids get shot up at Columbine and it’s a nat’l tragedy?? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/26 "2003-11-09T00:01:33Z")
Another aspect of Buchanan’s politics needs to be pointed out: Whatever his racial prejudices might be, he probably cannot be classified as a Nazi or a Fascist, or even a crypto-Fascist, because those ideologies are all about the power and glory of a centralized national state. Buchanan would never accept an American national state any more centralized than it is now, and he obviously thinks the federal government we’ve already got is much too big and powerful and intrusive – even when “conservatives” are running it. He is a consistent decentralist and states’-righter, as well as being a consistent military isolationist. And so are the Greens! Decentralists and isolationists! See, even the worst enemies can find some common ground! ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/27 "2003-11-09T00:12:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\* He is a consistent decentralist and states’-righter, as well as being a consistent military isolationist. And so are the Greens! Decentralists and isolationists! See, even the worst enemies can find some common ground! \*\* I always got the impression that the Greens wouldn’t mind military interventionism as long as it involves placing US troops under some international command and intervening only for “humanitarian” reasons. Internationalism is part of the central philosophy of the Greens where they originated in Europe. But I suppose there may be differences among them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/28 "2003-11-09T00:38:05Z")
Posted by **RexDart:** > [@](#): > > I always got the impression that the Greens wouldn’t mind military interventionism as long as it involves placing US troops under some international command and intervening only for “humanitarian” reasons. Internationalism is part of the central philosophy of the Greens where they originated in Europe. But I suppose there may be differences among them. Well, that’s not what I’ve heard. I think the Greens would accept “internationalism” only in forms that don’t involve foreign military adventures. But check out their website and decide for yourself. Actually, there are two Green parties in the U.S. The Green Party of the United States ([http://www.gp.org/](http://www.gp.org/)) is the larger and more moderate party that ran Ralph Nader for president in 1996 and 2000 (and is now running a candidate (Matt Gonzalez) for mayor in San Francisco, who for once has emerged second-placed in the election, so he gets to go up against the Democrat (Gavin Newsom) in a runoff on December 9). From their 2000 party platform: > [@](#): > > As we look back at the wars and deprivations of the past, and set our minds to overcoming continued conflicts and violence, we realize the difficulties inherent in encouraging democracy, and of advancing THE CAUSE OF PEACE. With the end of the Cold War has come a more complex set of challenges in how our nation defines its NATIONAL SECURITY. Our present task is to rid ourselves of the residue of the geopolitical conflict of East versus West, with its bloated defense budgets, thousands of unneeded nuclear weapons and major troop deployments overseas. Greens support sustainable development and social and economic justice across the globe. Reducing militarism and reliance on arms policies is the key to progress toward collective security. The Greens/Green Party USA ([http://www.greenparty.org/](http://www.greenparty.org/)) are an older and smaller organization, and generally considered to be more dogmatically Marxist. But even they don’t favor military interventionism. From their 2000 party platform: > [@](#): > > A Pro-Democracy Foreign Policy: We call for a fundamental shift in US foreign policy, from supporting repressive regimes in the interests global corporations to supporting the pro-democracy labor, social, and environmental movements of the people. > Support International, Multilateral Peacekeeping to Stop Aggression and Genocide > No Unilateral US Intervention in the Internal Affairs of Other Countries > Close All Overseas US Military Bases > Disband NATO and All Aggressive Military Alliances > Ban US Arms Exports > Abolish the CIA, NSA, US Army School of the Americas, and All US Agencies of Covert Warfare > End the Economic Blockades of Cuba, Iraq, and Yugoslavia > Cut Off US Military Aid to Counter-Insurgency Wars in Colombia and Mexico > Freedom for Lori Berenson and All Political Prisoners > Require a National Referendum to Declare War I think Pat Buchanan could get behind most of this, except for things like “international, multilateral peacekeeping.” Greens think the U.S. should pull out of the WTO; Buchanan thinks we should pull out of the WTO **and** the U.N. ---
**Author:** ![HumanStromboli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@HumanStromboli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanStromboli)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/29 "2003-11-10T14:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*I may be the only person on the boards to have met him. > > He’s very funny in person. Joking and friendly. Seems very open. I disagree with a great many of his stands but I’ll tell you this…the man **believes**. \*\* I’ve met him too (spoke with him in a group of about four people for about ten minutes or so), and I concur with every bit of this, including the disagree with many of his stands part. About a decade ago, when CNN was first starting to do “Crossfire” on location from George Washington University on an occasional basis, Buchanan was the primary host “from the right.” He and the lefty (usually Michael Kinsley, or Knisley, or whichever one is the political columnist and not the sports columnist) would field questions from the audience after the show had concluded. They were both great, but I specifically remember thinking Buchanan especially lacked pretension—he fielded question after question (many of them critical) with humor and patience, not once looking at his watch or giving the impression he wanted to be elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/30 "2003-11-10T21:37:24Z")
Slight hijack but this thread reminds me of a joke. I never use it anymore as PB’s relevance has diminished considerably but all the ‘themes’ have been brought up here so what the heck. Did you know Pat Buchanan’s father died in a Nazi concentration camp? \ No, really?!? \ Yes indeed! He fell from one of the guard towers and broke his neck. _rim shot_ ::d&R:: MeanJoe ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538/31 "2003-11-10T22:34:31Z")
I heard a comic on Comedy Central tell the following joke: In 1996, Vladimir Zhirinovsky called Buchanan a `brother in arms’, and told him they would be able to work together to deport U.S. and Russian Jews. (This was no joke – VZ actually made that statement, and Buchanan of course denounced this low blow from a nut case). The comedian continued, “Buchanan replied, 'Mr. Zhirinovsky needs to learn to speak in code – in America, we don’t say ‘deport Jews’, we say ‘oust the eastern liberals.’” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-patrick-buchanan-get-a-bad-rap/210538.md?page=1)