# Does Paul Ryan want to make the US a tax-free zone for billionaires? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 15, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597 "2012-08-15T19:48:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/61 "2012-08-16T19:12:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The Democrats saying _“Romney and Ryan would abolish all taxes on the rich and make abortions illegal if they could”_ is the equivalent of the Republicans saying _“Obama and Biden would abolish private health care and confiscate all firearms if they could.”_ Both sides realize that their opposition probably couldn’t achieve those supposed goals but they don’t want their opponents to move the country in the direction of those goals - such as lowering taxes on the wealthy, increasing public healthcare, and making abortions and firearms more difficult to obtain. Well…yes. Exactly. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/62 "2012-08-16T19:12:48Z")
Those don’t look like parallel statements to me. I don’t think there are _any_ prominent Democrats who actually have a goal of “abolishing private health care” or “confiscating all firearms.” Whereas, there are many conservatives who say pretty routinely that abortion should be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/63 "2012-08-16T19:29:48Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I disagree, though it’s probably moot, since he’s not running for president, and even if Romney wins he’s not going to get all that pushed through (even if you assume Romney is in lockstep with Ryan over the budget, which I’m not convinced of). I think that the budget process has been a work in progress for Ryan, as he works through practical attempts to implement a workable budget using conservative philosophy. As people bring up issues or problems, he goes back to the drawing board to address them. Having read a bit about the guy and this process, it’s actually quite interesting how he’s doing this. Romney isn’t even in lockstep with Romney over this. You expect too much of the guy. We’re also not talking about details which could be miscalculated and have to be reworked. Massive reductions in the capital gains tax is not some “problem” that slipped Ryan’s mind, unless you consider him a real moron - which he clearly is not. Unless he has had a massive change of heart about tax policy, looking at his old budget is definitely appropriate. That’s why we want to see Romney’s returns - we want to see what he did before he started running for President. If you want to search a dorm room for drugs, you don’t do it on the day the kids parents are visiting. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/64 "2012-08-16T20:20:58Z")
**XT** those gymnastics you are doing look painful. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/65 "2012-08-16T20:37:03Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > **XT** those gymnastics you are doing look painful. To me, the irony of this statement is nearly off the scale. Of course, it looks like pretty effortless handwave-age going on here to me as well, so perhaps the ‘painful’ part is the key… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/66 "2012-08-16T20:59:33Z")
So, XT, do you favor elimination of the estate tax, tax on dividends, tax on interest, and capital gains tax? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/67 "2012-08-16T21:19:50Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So, if I get this right, some hypothetical person who inherits a billion dollars from daddy, and then never does a lick of work the rest of their lives, but instead subsists on income from investments (capital gains, interest, and dividends), would never pay a single dollar of federal taxes. But… but… he’s a _job creator_!😛 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/68 "2012-08-16T21:31:14Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > So, XT, do you favor elimination of the estate tax, tax on dividends, tax on interest, and capital gains tax? No, yes, no and depends on where the bar is set. 😛 But I’m not a tax wonk, nor do I play one on the SDMB, so as always I’m open to convincing. All I object to in this thread is the fact that the guy is being busted on for an early attempt at an actual budget policy…and that I think this is one of those instances where folks are cool with this deception because it’s for their side, while they would be bouncing off the walls if the tables were turned and it was the other side doing unto them instead. Personally, I’m a bit less passionate about all this, since I’m neither a Dem nor a Pub, have already decided I’ll be voting for Obama, and don’t really pay that much attention to what the VP might or might not say or do. If I WAS concerned with the VP, then I definitely wouldn’t vote for Obama, as I think Biden is an ass…and a clueless ass at that. The only other thought I have on this is merely to point out that, bad as Ryan’s budget proposal (his 2.01 version currently available) might or might not be, at least he’s put something down on paper TOO be looked at and criticized. When I see something similar from the Dems then it will be more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/69 "2012-08-16T21:34:48Z")
Oh, and just for the record, I’m not opposed to higher taxes, even or especially on The Rich™…as long as we are talking about some budget cuts and those taxes being used towards the deficit instead of towards new spending or entitlements. I’d also not be opposed to a pony in every pot…or pot… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/70 "2012-08-16T22:15:14Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The only other thought I have on this is merely to point out that, bad as Ryan’s budget proposal (his 2.01 version currently available) might or might not be, at least he’s put something down on paper TOO be looked at and criticized. Was it a “budget proposal” or was it a stealth attempt to eliminate taxes on the wealthy? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/71 "2012-08-16T22:39:53Z")
> [@XT](#): > > All I object to in this thread is the fact that the guy is being busted on for an early attempt at an actual budget policy…and that I think this is one of those instances where folks are cool with this deception because it’s for their side, while they would be bouncing off the walls if the tables were turned and it was the other side doing unto them instead. One of my pet issues on the SDMB is the utter pointlessness of all “well, we all know that if X happened, collective-you would be saying Y” type claims. Has there been a situation recently in which a democratic public figure came suddenly and prominently into the public eye, at which point people looked at a public policy initiative that he had put forth a few years earlier, while already holding elected office, and criticized elements of it, and the democrats howled in outrage because they were criticizing elements of an early version of it, not a later version of it? I don’t know of any… so unless that fairly precise thing happened, your charge of hypocrisy is off base. And in fact, if there was an early version of Obamacare that Obama proposed and endorsed which said that Republican babies would be taken from their parents and raised in communes, or something like that, and then later versions had that clause removed, and someone said “hey, that is evidence that Obama wants to take Republican babies from their parents”, and the Democrats said “uhh, what? no it isn’t… hey, you’re looking at a now-obsolete proposal, DIRTY POOL YOU ARE CHEATING”, then the Democrats would be ridiculous in so doing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/72 "2012-08-17T00:13:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really unfair when Romney and Ryan have declared a standard that any financial issues that are older than two years are off the record in this election. More broadly, that lets Bush off the hook for his economic meltdown. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/73 "2012-08-17T03:06:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well…yes. Exactly. 😕 Maybe I’ve misunderstood your position. When you said this made zero sense to you, I thought you were saying you couldn’t see why the Democrats were treating this as a legitimate issue. Are you actually questioning the double standard of some people saying it’s okay to do this to the Republicans but it would be wrong to do this to the Democrats? If so, I’d agree - both sides should be able to call the opposing candidates’ political records into question. And the candidates are able to respond and defend their political records. I feel this is a legitimate part of the electoral process. So I feel the Democrats should be able to call Ryan’s 2010 tax proposal into question. The proper response to this is for Ryan and other Republicans to defend his proposal (or repudiate it). But saying the topic should be out of bounds is not a acceptable response. Or am I still missing your point? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597/74 "2012-08-17T10:01:39Z")
Debaser, encouraging saving is the exact same thing as discouraging investment. Which I don’t think anyone wants to do in a recession. Certain appropriations of capital are more stimulative than others: unemployment expenditure is highly stimulative for instance, taking far longer to reach the feedback loop of investment into financial instruments. Speaking of which, under your proposed “sales tax” would you support sales of financial instruments being taxed? If not, then eliminating income tax and reconstituting tax with sales tax would be the most regressive tax proposal ever made. More so than a flat income tax, simply because the poor spend far greater portions of their income on basic amenities than the rich, which can sequester money into financial instruments and offshore ventures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-paul-ryan-want-to-make-the-us-a-tax-free-zone-for-billionaires/631597.md?page=3)