# Does pie and chips mean something different to Brits? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940 "2006-02-24T17:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/41 "2006-02-25T11:50:04Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Not only does “pie” conjure the image of a savoury food, but the only “sweet” pies I know are apple and pecan. Eh? You need to get out of London more. Try gooseberry, blackcurrant, rhubarb, raspberry, cherry, all of which I’ve had frequently oop North. This introduces another angle: non-sweet dessert pies. All of the above, with the exception of cherry, are best when tart. That is something I miss here in America - the pies I have had have been universally sweet. A blueberry pie is very bland compared with a blackcurrant pie. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/42 "2006-02-25T12:16:06Z")
**Maureen** , **Guin** , most of the things I’ve eaten in the US called “pie” didn’t seem to have pastry crust - or at least not all over. They seem to be more like what we’d call a tart or a flan, with an open top, e.g. pumpkin pie or pecan pie, some versions of which I’ve had seemed to be more cake-like and with pastry only on the bottom. And, e.g. grashopper pie and Mississippi mud pie, which don’t have pastry in any way. Our sweet pies, like our savoury ones, have pastry on the top too, however, they are thinner, wider and shorter, while savoury ones are tall and fat as in the cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/43 "2006-02-25T12:26:15Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Ew. No. Nothing goes with poi. Not even poi. icky ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/44 "2006-02-25T12:53:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Our sweet pies, like our savoury ones, have pastry on the top too, however, they are **thinner, wider** and shorter, while savoury ones are tall and fat as in the cartoon. Well, apparently your pies aren’t restricted by the laws of three dimensional space, so you might have an advantage there. 🙂 The big three of fruit pies, (Apple, Cherry, Peach) are almost always with a pastry crust on top, and most other fruit pies have it as well, Pumpkin and Key lime are the big exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/45 "2006-02-25T12:59:48Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Well, apparently your pies aren’t restricted by the laws of three dimensional space, so you might have an advantage there. 🙂 You haven’t lived until you’ve gone down the local chippie and ordered a traditional battered tesseract with brownian sauce. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/46 "2006-02-25T12:59:58Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Eh? You need to get out of London more. Try gooseberry, blackcurrant, rhubarb, raspberry, cherry, all of which I’ve had frequently oop North… Well done, **Amarone** - I was sufficiently flummoxed by the idea of so few (sweet) pies that I thought it must just be so far past bedtime it would be wrong to try to post when I read it. Yes, indeed, many pies. (And of course the christmassy mince pie, which is always good for causing a bit of confusion. 😃 ) Somebody mentioned a cheeseburger pie. How is that supposed to work? I mean, if it’s bad for me and has got calories, well, then, it sounds like something I might eat, but … oh well, I get the feeling I’ve been whooshed. So how do savoury pies (of beef, chicken etc) translate into Amerispeak, then? I’d find it hard to believe that, once having landed on the other side of that big pond, people suddenly thought, “no longer shall we ever think it a convenient thing to encase some meat in some pastry, making a snack that is not only tasty but really quite convenient if it has to be carried, perhaps out to work in a distant field, or whatever, OK, we’ll do it with apples and stuff, but we see no sense in savoury pies of any kind”. Hmmm, perhaps I should eat pies today, , some the kind that go with chips (fries) or potatoes, and some the kind that go rather better with cream. When come back, bring larger dress size. ☹ ) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/47 "2006-02-25T13:13:24Z")
> [@](#): > > So how do savoury pies (of beef, chicken etc) translate into Amerispeak, then? I’d find it hard to believe that, once having landed on the other side of that big pond, people suddenly thought, “no longer shall we ever think it a convenient thing to encase some meat in some pastry, making a snack that is not only tasty but really quite convenient if it has to be carried, perhaps out to work in a distant field, or whatever, OK, we’ll do it with apples and stuff, but we see no sense in savoury pies of any kind”. It’s not entirely dead here. But somehow in the last hundred years or so it got associated with the poor and hickish. When I was a kid Chicken pot pie was still fairly popular, but got unpopular real quick. Some of it has to do with our insane germophopia. In order to carry it into a field to eat later it would have spent at least an hour out of the oven, and it might kill you!!! In college one of the treats for my ‘not penniless, but still damn poor’ weeks was frozen Chicken pot pie, and a few other frozen meat pies. They were 30-50 cents for a 6-8 oz pie, so good survival food. But they were nasty, mostly coagulated grease a couple shreds of what was once meat and a pea or two. After that I associate Meat pies with shit+failure and they just don’t appeal. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/48 "2006-02-25T13:31:00Z")
The pleasure of pie eating rests in the magical confluence of pastry and filling. Herewith I give you the answer to perfect pie enjoyment at will. Cook whatever filling you like, however you like. Before serving it bake some frozen pastry, cut into squares - puff for savoury dishes, shortcrust for sweet dishes. Aussies can just use a jaffle iron. Place a piece of pastry, top with filling add another piece of pastry (cut in triangles and stuck in is good). Add sauce (savoury), custard/icecream/yoghurt (sweet). ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/49 "2006-02-25T14:01:21Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > So how do savoury pies (of beef, chicken etc) translate into Amerispeak, then? I’d find it hard to believe that, once having landed on the other side of that big pond, people suddenly thought, “no longer shall we ever think it a convenient thing to encase some meat in some pastry, making a snack that is not only tasty but really quite convenient if it has to be carried, perhaps out to work in a distant field, or whatever, OK, we’ll do it with apples and stuff, but we see no sense in savoury pies of any kind”. I must confess that having meat wrapped in pastry sounds more like a Cornish pasty than a pie to me, especially if you’re talking about toting it around. American pies (with the exception of that abomination from McDonald’s) aren’t portable that way. Things that I think come close in concept, if not execution, would be Dr Evil’s favorite [Hot Pockets](http://www.hotpockets.com/) and things like turnovers (which could be sweet or savory), but they’d never be called pies here. > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Fruit pies are made with Shortcrust pastry. Savoury pies (over here, anyway) are Watercrust pastry. I had to Google to see just what the difference was in these, because I hadn’t heard the terms before. Is there really that sharp a distinction in crust types? The closest thing to shortcrust here would be a graham cracker crust, and while that sort of thing goes really well with some sweet pies (and cheesecakes) here, it’s not a universal. Plenty of fruit pies, including the traditional apple pie, would be made with a flaky crust that might or might not have lard in it, as your water crust does. And any of the times I’ve had chicken pot pie, it’s had a savoury flaky crust too. **amarone** , you need to find yourself a nice sour cherry pie - much better than the sweet version! ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/50 "2006-02-25T14:12:17Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Try gooseberry, blackcurrant, rhubarb, raspberry, cherry, all of which I’ve had frequently oop North. And how could I forget blackberry. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/51 "2006-02-25T14:41:23Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You haven’t lived until you’ve gone down the local chippie and ordered a traditional battered tesseract with brownian sauce. File for future reference: Coffee hurts when it comes flying out of your nose. 😃 Robin ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/52 "2006-02-25T14:48:37Z")
My mother used to make a dish called ‘beef and kidney ragout’. My father refused to eat it, his comment always being “I’m not eating anything you have to boil the piss out of first.” Dad wasn’t on anyone’s ‘A’ list for classy events. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/53 "2006-02-25T15:32:57Z")
If you want a sweet and savoury pie, you should go for the [Bedfordshire Clanger](http://www.bedfordshire.gov.uk/BedsCC/SDclanger.nsf/Web/ThePage/Bedfordshire+Clanger) This was a type of Cornish pasty which had meat and vegetables at one end and fruit or jam at the other. Two courses in one package. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/54 "2006-02-25T15:43:26Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You haven’t lived until you’ve gone down the local chippie and ordered a traditional battered tesseract with brownian sauce. I should add that you can only get these in a fission chip shop. OK, enough of the bad physics jokes. I googled for images of “pot pie”, and it seems that this is what we in the UK generally mean by plain old “pie”, in a savoury context. I had previously thought that pot pie was something served in a pot, like a ramikin, with only a pastry top, but I see I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/55 "2006-02-25T19:20:37Z")
Ahah, I have also wondered about this “pot pie” business, but always got distracted before I looked it up. So, then, a pot pie is a pie. Learning something new everyday. I have put pot in recipes before, just not pies … yes, I’ve got my coat. (I _loved_ the “tesseract with brownian sauce” notion, which I have only now read. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/56 "2006-02-25T19:22:49Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I should add that you can only get these in a fission chip shop. > > OK, enough of the bad physics jokes. > > I googled for images of “pot pie”, and it seems that this is what we in the UK generally mean by plain old “pie”, in a savoury context. I had previously thought that pot pie was something served in a pot, like a ramikin, with only a pastry top, but I see I’m wrong. A single-crust pie-in-a-ramikin is a true pot pie. But they’re very common in the US as a frozen convenience food. Those are shaped like a standard two-crust pie. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Glassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Glassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glassy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/57 "2006-02-25T19:40:21Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Um, the kidney part. It’s not bad enough that organ meat makes many Americans queasy, but associating it with PIE (again, the American concept of pie) is just too much. Oh my God, I had steak and kindey pie while vacationing in England once, and it was incredibly delicious. The kidneys weren’t great obvious chewey hunks of organ - they were chopped smaller than the beef, and seemed to go more to flavoring the rich gravy. It had mushrooms in it, too. And there was beer to drink, too. Man it was good. Those Geico commericals sort of confuse me, though. I liked the ones that mocked actual commercials better - like the one that was supposed to be a Hair Club For Men commercial. “It improved my tennis game!” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/58 "2006-02-25T20:56:35Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > Somebody mentioned a cheeseburger pie. How is that supposed to work? I mean, if it’s bad for me and has got calories, well, then, it sounds like something I might eat, but … oh well, I get the feeling I’ve been whooshed. Well, it’s kind of a casserole dish, baked in a pie pan. The recipe I have is from Bisquick, and it’s mostly what you’d call “trailer trash cuisine”. Maybe it’s more of a “quiche”, but it’s got ground beef, cheddar cheese, onions, ketchup, etc. It’s really good. See, to me, pie isn’t something you can carry around for convenience. That’s more of a wrap or a turnover. Hot Pockets-damn, those are good. Most Americans though tend to take sandwiches in their lunches. The really good ones are referred to as “sammishes”. All sammishes are sandwiches, but not all sandwiches are sammishes. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/59 "2006-02-25T21:29:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, it’s kind of a casserole dish, baked in a pie pan. The recipe I have is from Bisquick, and it’s mostly what you’d call “trailer trash cuisine”. > > Maybe it’s more of a “quiche”, but it’s got ground beef, cheddar cheese, onions, ketchup, etc. It’s really good. Huh. That’s funny. Cheeseburger pie to me is barbecued ground beef, maybe with peppers and onions, topped by mashed potatoes, and with lots of cheese grated over all that. If everything’s hot when you put it together, then you put it in the oven and let it bake until the cheese is nice and bubbly and the top of the potatoes is kind of crispy. If everything’s cold, ie you’re making it out of leftovers, then you put together everything but the cheese and bake it until it’s hot, and then add the cheese and let it go until it’s bubbly. No Bisquick in sight, which is good, because Bisquick is evil. Cheeseburger pie is really good, and I just realized I haven’t had it since high school. I must request Mom makes it over spring break. As for the savory pies, that’s what we’d call a pasty around here. My mom even makes something called hobo pasty, which is ground beef, potatoes, onions, and corn baked together in a casserole dish. The filling that would go in a pasty (well, not the corn) but not the crust. It’s all right, but not my favorite dish. Real pasty, though – oh, god, that’s good. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940/60 "2006-02-26T02:11:50Z")
See, this horrid-sounding “cheeseburger pie” 😕, about which pastry is never mentioned, illustrates to me the comprehension disconnect between the Limeys and the Septics on this term. Over here, with the exception of shepherd’s and fish pie, for anything to be deemed a “pie”, it _has to be surrounded by pastry_. Sides, bottom, and top. That’s what “pie” means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pie-and-chips-mean-something-different-to-brits/345940.md?page=4)