# Does political correctness preclude gay-stereotype comedy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192 "2014-06-20T03:44:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/21 "2014-06-21T00:28:05Z")
Here in Britain there is a long-standing tradition of gay comedians who present themselves as exaggerated gay stereotypes on stage: Kenneth Williams, Larry Grayson, John Inman,\* Julian Clary, to name but a few. Generally speaking the performers are actually gay. They are popular with straight audiences, but, so far as I can tell, the gay community heartily approves. The late Kenneth Williams (who didn’t _only_ do the gay stereotype in his work, but certainly did it very regularly) seems latterly to have become something of a hero to the gay community. \*I suppose if your name is John Inman you have little choice.😛 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/22 "2014-06-21T01:09:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve only seen a couple of episodes of Modern Family, but I think they’re making jokes about the gay experience or a specific type of gay experience and person. That’s not the same as saying “homosexuality is funny.” That’s a much broader statement, and it does have some nasty implications. Cam: I can play the drums. Dillon: Wow! Really? Cam: What? Do you think because I’m gay I can only play show tunes? Dillon: No. Because you’re…_old._ A lot of Modern Family gay jokes are like the above in which they poke fun at the gay couple for getting offended at what turns out to be harmless. But, they do tend to poke fun at Cam for being effeminate. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/23 "2014-06-21T01:14:18Z")
I sure hope not, because then it’ll make me insensitive for loving one of my favorite TV shows, “Will and Grace” ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/24 "2014-06-21T03:14:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I agree it doesn’t sound offensive, but it’s pretty mild. Today that wouldn’t read as a joke. It totally would. In fact, that’s the entire joke of the music video for [Call me Maybe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic&feature=kp). Girl totally crushes on a hot guy, and the very last scene is him turning out to be gay. It’s played for laughs, but not in a mean spirited way. Just a sort of awkward “oh, well… huh… didn’t see that coming” sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/25 "2014-06-21T03:22:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There’s a _Golden Girls_ episode where Blanche (the slutty one) sees a guy alone in a restaurant who is mulling over proposing to his SO. She talks him into it with a long spiel about how love is always worth it and stuff, and goes back to her own table. Then, obvious punchline, a guy walks in and the dude proposes to him. Cue laugh track. > > Obviously, at the time this (joke) wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow. Oh, yes, it would have; just different sets of eyebrows. Some people are offended just by being reminded that homosexuality exists. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/26 "2014-06-21T03:24:05Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Cam: I can play the drums. > Dillon: Wow! Really? > Cam: What? Do you think because I’m gay I can only play show tunes What, there are no drums in show tunes?! Check out Mickey Rooney doing [La Conga](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghj7XY5L87Y)! And no one e’er called **him** qu’ar, AFAIK, not tho’ he danced and sang with Dorothy hersel’! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/27 "2014-06-21T03:34:02Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Political correctness precludes comedy. 😕 What nigger-bitch-dyke told you **that?!** > [@marshmallow](#): > > With that said, unsophisticated comedy is gonna tank no matter what. _Benny Hill_ didn’t. Larry the Cable Guy didn’t. Polish jokes/ethnic-jokes-in-general didn’t. _Totally Gross Jokes_ didn’t. Not all audiences prefer the sophisticated. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/28 "2014-06-21T16:55:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > […] But I do laugh at you, sometimes. Let’s face it: **Homosexuality is funny.** Many other things but funny, and many wonderful things I have no doubt, but, still, funny. Always has been, always will be. […] > > Is it really so horrible or bigoted to appreciate all of that? > > […] Well, yeah, it is. We can grant that it is common to do so. But it’s bigoted to make fun of a minority group for being who they are, from outside the group. It can have horrible impact too. Referring to “political correctness” suggests to most of us that trying not to offend is foolish, too, compounding the problem. The times, they are a-changin’. Shifting the standards while conducting daily life can present some minor absurdities, and we get to work through them however we can. But, making fun of somebody for being different from yourself is not a very safe passtime. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/29 "2014-06-21T20:26:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I agree it doesn’t sound offensive, but it’s pretty mild. Today that wouldn’t read as a joke. Sure it would, probably in the exact same way it was intended back then. Hyper-hetero old southern lady being shown the hypocrisy of her morals. “love is all” and “homosexuality is weird” in juxtaposition. The joke involves homosexuality, but it’s about her reaction to it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/30 "2014-06-21T21:59:30Z")
So, those arguing that “PC” squelches “gay-stereotype comedy,” do any of you think that _La Cage aux Folles_ is being censored, anywhere, currently? Does anyone think it should? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/31 "2014-06-21T22:31:15Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, those arguing that “PC” squelches “gay-stereotype comedy,” do any of you think that _La Cage aux Folles_ is being censored, anywhere, currently? Does anyone think it should? The fact is, that the “flamer” type will always be mockable, just like any over-the-top personality. There is no reason for it to be any more sacrosanct than the uber-jock face painter or the screeching for justice liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/32 "2014-06-21T22:32:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Sure it would, probably in the exact same way it was intended back then. Hyper-hetero old southern lady being shown the hypocrisy of her morals. “love is all” and “homosexuality is weird” in juxtaposition. The joke involves homosexuality, but it’s about her reaction to it. The way I understood **Really Not All That Bright** ’s description (and I could have gotten the wrong impression) the joke was “the guy she talked to is gay- bet you didn’t see that coming, haha!” It could be played other ways, but there didn’t seem to be any hypocrisy on Blanche’s part. But the scene could work that way. I was saying earlier that if the joke is at the expense of someone who is a hypocrite, to me the joke isn’t about gays and isn’t evidence that homosexuality is funny. > [@Marley23](#): > > It’s funny when people like that turn out to be liars or hypocrites, but again, that’s not a feature unique to homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/33 "2014-06-21T22:36:28Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > You have clearly never seen internet fanfiction. Or Tumblr. I remember hearing that a ridiculously high percentage of Queer as Folk fans were straight women. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/34 "2014-06-21T22:42:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, those arguing that “PC” squelches “gay-stereotype comedy,” do any of you think that _La Cage aux Folles_ is being censored, anywhere, currently? Does anyone think it should? Speaking of which, has Nathan Lane found it impossible to find work? I’m sure there are some gay people who object such comedies but I haven’t met any. ETA: the “speaking of which” was because Lane was in the American remake “Birdcage”. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/35 "2014-06-22T00:33:21Z")
Historically, gay men have always been known for our sense of humor, especially at ourselves, and I hope that’s something that’ll never change. But the focus has changed; things that were funny only 15 years ago are already falling flat. It used to be considered funny for a gay character to plant a big kiss on a straight guy’s mouth; today, the straight guy would contact his lawyer. I’ve recently watched some episodes of “Will and Grace,” and some of the things that the audience laughed at are no longer funny. Especially the “in” jokes, with the audience laughing just to show they “get” them . . . yet today, the general public is in on them, and they’re no longer funny. So whoever’s writing comedy now has to move the goalposts and play on. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/36 "2014-06-22T05:08:38Z")
Where was it that George Takai was playing the ultra-camp character who was thrilled at the prospect of going down on an equally camp gay Superman? Not the funniest skit the world’s seen, but it does answer the Q of “political correctness” and having fun with gay characters. The bar is getting raised, but funny is still funny. “Cheers’” schtick with having Norm getting kissed on the cheeks by two “undetected” gays wouldn’t go very far, and “Boys in the Band” is horribly dated. How about having a character asking a stranger in a bar “Do you know Dorothy?”. See how many get the reference. (this was code for “I’m queer, are you?”. the reference was to Dorothy who found herself in a strange and _fabulous_ world (Oz)). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/37 "2014-06-22T15:12:08Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > But the focus has changed; things that were funny only 15 years ago are already falling flat. It used to be considered funny for a gay character to plant a big kiss on a straight guy’s mouth; today, the straight guy would contact his lawyer. I agree with your other points, but not this. Do you have any cases where straight guys are suing gay guys because of a mistaken kiss? We had this joke on Modern Family a couple of years ago when Matthew Broderick went over to Phil’s house. Broderick’s character thought it was a date, and Phil being clueless as always thought it was a couple of buddies watching a football game. Before he leaves, he gives Phil a kiss on the mouth. Phil stands there stunned for a few seconds before shrugging his shoulders and concluding that it all made sense now. I thought it was funny as hell because it was typical Phil and there was no squicky “a dude just kissed me” moment. He just shrugged it off. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/38 "2014-06-22T17:19:22Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > A lot of Modern Family gay jokes are like the above in which they poke fun at the gay couple for getting offended at what turns out to be harmless. But, they do tend to poke fun at Cam for being effeminate. Sort of, but what they love to do is poke fun at Cam for thinking he’s masculine when he’s really not. Every member of the family really loves Cam for who he is, but a common joke is watching him flip out when he thinks someone is discounting his masculinity. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192/39 "2014-06-24T05:13:14Z")
I think the funniest gay man ever was Paul Lynn, famous for being on the Hollywood Squares. His mannerisms and zingers were hilarious: * * * Peter Marshall: In the “Wizard of Oz,” the lion wanted courage and the tin man wanted a heart. What did the scarecrow want? Paul Lynde: He wanted the tin man to notice him. Peter Marshall: What do you call a man who gives you diamonds and pearls? Paul Lynde: I’d call him “darling”! Peter Marshall: Paul, can anything bring tears to a chimp’s eyes? Paul Lynde: Finding out that Tarzan swings both ways! Peter Marshall: According to legend, who looks better, a pixie or a fairy? Paul Lynde (in deeper voice): Well, looks aren’t everything! (laughter and applause) Well, I guess I would say…I would have to go with the fairy. (more laughter) * * * Now compare gay men to lesbians? The gay lisp and mannerisms (Paul Lynn) are funny. When lesbians try and talk and act like men? Boring! Men dressed in drag - oh man a riot! Women dressed in men’s clothes - doesnt even make sense. And the wilder the drag queen the better. Now people will say Ellen Degeneres but to me, her lesbo humor falls flat. She does though have a good personality and seems a good talk show host. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-political-correctness-preclude-gay-stereotype-comedy/691192.md?page=1)