# Does pork rhyme with fork/cork/dork/bork to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568 "2014-05-16T03:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/41 "2014-05-16T18:39:02Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > For whom? Again, I have two authoritative dictionaries that show identically rhyming pronunciations for all four words, and no alternatives. What region, dialect or population has differing pronunciations? Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/42 "2014-05-16T18:39:31Z")
And what are those pronunciations? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/43 "2014-05-16T18:40:39Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > Pork and fork rhyme. > Bork, dork, cork rhyme. > > The two sets don’t rhyme with each other, though. I’m mid 30s, so not young enough to be in the younger generation. Perhaps that has something to do with it. They all rhyme to me. I’m 58 and Californian, although I lived for awhile in Ohio. If it’s part of a Californian accent, then Hollywood is spreading it. And they all rhyme with Mork from Ork. > [@delphica](#): > > Huh, this is fascinating. I have elderly relatives who I remember saying something that sounded like “po’erk” for “pork.” . . . . Would this be pork with two syllables? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/44 "2014-05-16T18:41:41Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > For whom? Again, I have two authoritative dictionaries that show identically rhyming pronunciations for all four words, and no alternatives. What region, dialect or population has differing pronunciations? Whooosh… I thought my last line would make it obvious that I was kidding. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/45 "2014-05-16T18:46:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ll certainly accept your word for it, but it would seem that somewhere there’s a cite. Simply saying there’s an arbitrary difference among anything but a very minor group (such as a city neighborhood) only goes so far. > > There are of course many regionalisms - “warsh” cloths, “idears” etc. but this is the first I have ever heard that there are different rhyme classifications for common words ending in “-ork.” I’m obviously not alone. Some substantiation besides What-If-O-Pedia must be out there unless it’s a truly microcosmic phenomenon. You can’t really take the OED as a definitive guide to pronunciation, nor any other dictionary. It can only serve as a general guide. As a subset of English speakers, Scots probably are a “microcosm”, I guess - there are only 5 or 6 million of us, but we speak the way we speak and this isn’t something that some random Wiki editor made up. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/46 "2014-05-16T18:49:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And what are those pronunciations? As I said above, I’m not competent in using the IPA and any explanation I give is going to be inadequate. But roughly speaking, “pork” has the same vowel sound to me as “oar” or “board”, while “fork” is more like “clock”. I’d speak the words, but I don’t really know how to post sound files online in a wa that they can be easily accessed. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/47 "2014-05-16T19:08:15Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > You can’t really take the OED as a definitive guide to pronunciation, nor any other dictionary. It can only serve as a general guide. The better dictionaries are quite good at including alternate, lesser and archaic pronunciations; see “niche” in almost any of them for an example. But okay. Ork and ork and ork all have different pronunciations. Kind of like [“Zathras.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA7EJJv1oWg) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/48 "2014-05-16T19:12:01Z")
bork? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/49 "2014-05-16T19:30:05Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Time to edit the Wiki page. You know you can do that, right? Yes, I was aware, thanks. Been aware of that for quite some time now. However with many people already having tried to do that on there (apparently) and the discussion about it (three times) on the talk page–where it was apparently overruled that “pork” had rhymes–I figured I’d get a third opinion first. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/50 "2014-05-16T19:30:31Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > But okay. Ork and ork and ork all have different pronunciations. Kind of like [“Zathras.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA7EJJv1oWg) I really don’t know what else to say. Yes, in Scottish English, “pork” and “fork” are pronounced differently. I find this fact completely unremarkable and entirely believable. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/51 "2014-05-16T19:31:19Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > The ɔ is the sound you say - if you speak SAE (Standard American English, also called General American English, or GA) - in hot. It isn’t, though. GA pronounces hot as [hɑt]. The RP sound for that is [ɒ], a sound which doesn’t exist in American, and because it’s rounded, it more closely resembles [ɔ]. To say [hɔt] would be dialectal for Americans; it’s how a stereotypical Noo Yawka would tawk. British English has one more vowel sound than American does, that “short o” sound of [ɒ]. To use it at all is instantly a marker of England to American ears. I too have noticed Wikipedia, and even more so, Wiktionary, sticking that schwa in between the [ɔ] and [r]. I added pronunciation to the article on Victoria: [vɪkˈtɔriə], and later someone came along and diphthongized it with the schwa… [vɪkˈtɔəriə]. I left it alone, figuring she was your queen, yous get dibs on how to pronounce her name. But the extra schwa seems strange to me. I’m just not hearing it. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/52 "2014-05-16T20:01:59Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Pork rhymes with fork, cork, dork, bork AND talk, chalk and walk, just to be difficult. > > Australian, middle-aged, no second language. I agree, and I am British, southern, and certainly not of the younger generation. (Actually, maybe I do very faintly pronounce the L in “chalk,” but you’d scarcely notice.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/53 "2014-05-16T20:26:15Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Yes, I was aware, thanks. Been aware of that for quite some time now. > > However with many people already having tried to do that on there (apparently) and the discussion about it (three times) on the talk page–where it was apparently overruled that “pork” had rhymes–I figured I’d get a third opinion first. Exactly. You can’t say anything on Wikipedia without a cite and expect it to stick around. It’s actually more strict than our GQ in that way. Not even information about the or/oar merger combined with proving that “pork” uses one phoneme while all other “-ork” words use the other would work. To put it on Wikipedia, you need a citation saying specifically that pork does not have a rhyme. It may seem a high bar, but it shouldn’t be. If this peculiarity exists, there should be some source that has noted it. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/54 "2014-05-16T20:33:21Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It may seem a high bar, but it shouldn’t be. If this peculiarity exists, there should be some source that has noted it. It exists. However, I can’t really think of the right search terms to use to provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/55 "2014-05-16T20:36:01Z")
That is true…however: 1. It’s still there, listed on the rhyming page and 2. I’m not about to get into a possible edit war with another (more experienced) editor over it. I figure someone who is more used to editing Wikipedia than I might sometime get around to it… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/56 "2014-05-16T20:44:41Z")
So far the vote is 159-0, with three people saying “I’ve heard it.” The people who allegedly think pork doesn’t rhyme with anything sure aren’t showing up here. ---
**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/57 "2014-05-16T20:44:59Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Ohhh, Bjork, Bjork, were you brought by the stork, > Or were you created from butter and cork? > I love you so much that I act like a dork, > Oh Bjork, oh Bjork, oh Bjork. > > – [The Bjork Song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNWeDjB1MMY), The Brunching Shuttlecocks > > Came to mind because of the bit later in the song: “What’s the next rhyme?” “um…da da da…pork.” “Pork? How does that fit in?” (singing) “Let’s go to my bedroom, that’s where we can…” “I GET IT! I get it…” Ha ha, and “Max Torque” rhymes too! **PaulParkhead:** Am I correct in understanding you to say that the “r” in “pork” is said kind of like a pirate, whereas the “r” in “fork” is a little more like a British “r”? Because that kind of makes sense to me, although I can’t explain why. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/58 "2014-05-16T20:51:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So far the vote is 159-0, with three people saying “I’ve heard it.” The people who allegedly think pork doesn’t rhyme with anything sure aren’t showing up here. I’m one of the three. I didn’t answer that I’ve never heard the words rhyme, because I have heard them rhyme - I know that they rhyme in most English and RP accents. Of the three choices in the poll, the third best suited me. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/59 "2014-05-16T20:56:21Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > It exists. However, I can’t really think of the right search terms to use to provide a cite. Is there no such thing as a Scots-English dictionary that includes regional pronunciations? (I mean “Scottish English” there, not “Scots to English”…) Or should I say, “Isthar nae sech thang…” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/60 "2014-05-16T21:00:34Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > **PaulParkhead:** Am I correct in understanding you to say that the “r” in “pork” is said kind of like a pirate, whereas the “r” in “fork” is a little more like a British “r”? Because that kind of makes sense to me, although I can’t explain why. Not really, if by “British R” you mean something like the non-rhotic r that you can hear in many English accents (for now at least, we Scots are British too). I pronounce the “r” rhotically in both words. As I said, I don’t know IPA, but the difference is like “poark” vs “fork”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568.md?page=4)