# Does pork rhyme with fork/cork/dork/bork to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568 "2014-05-16T03:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/61 "2014-05-16T21:07:39Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Is there no such thing as a Scots-English dictionary that includes regional pronunciations? (I mean “Scottish English” there, not “Scots to English”…) > > Or should I say, “Isthar nae sech thang…” 😃 “Izthur no such hing” if we’re going to do that. I’m sure there must exist a cite, somewhere. A cursory search reveals a whole bunch of people squabbling about the issue and, given that this is IMHO and I’m not particularly interested in proving, via independent sources, that I speak the way I speak (and that this is perfectly common in Scotland), well, there’s a limit to how much effort I’m prepared to expend. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/62 "2014-05-16T21:30:55Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > …I’m not particularly interested in proving, via independent sources, that I speak the way I speak (and that this is perfectly common in Scotland), well, there’s a limit to how much effort I’m prepared to expend. No one including me has debated that you speak the way you speak. You and a few others have made a rather extraordinary claim, based entirely on a line in Wikipedia and personal cite; the rest of us are interested in whether there’s any established, verifiable truth to the claim. I had a high school teacher who pronounced “basically” as “bee-thik-lee” despite having no other speech anomalies. That doesn’t make the pronunciation anything but a personal peculiarity unless and until someone points out a standardized citation to the contrary. If you don’t care to do so, that’s fine… but no one here is debating how you speak. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/63 "2014-05-16T21:36:39Z")
“Put pork on your fork” is the tag-line for an ad campaign in Canada. [http://www.putporkonyourfork.ca/index.html](http://www.putporkonyourfork.ca/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/64 "2014-05-16T21:44:07Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > No one including me has debated that you speak the way you speak. You and a few others have made a rather extraordinary claim, based entirely on a line in Wikipedia and personal cite; the rest of us are interested in whether there’s any established, verifiable truth to the claim. > > I had a high school teacher who pronounced “basically” as “bee-thik-lee” despite having no other speech anomalies. That doesn’t make the pronunciation anything but a personal peculiarity unless and until someone points out a standardized citation to the contrary. If you don’t care to do so, that’s fine… but no one here is debating how you speak. I don’t really see myself as “making an extraordinary claim” - I answered a question that was asked in IMHO. Frankly, I’m surprised that it’s even a matter for debate: many Scottish people speak this way and to me that’s unremarkable. Or to put it another way, I wasn’t aware that there was an ongoing Wiki edit war on the topic. If I had been, I’d just have kept my Scottish mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/65 "2014-05-16T21:48:55Z")
So the proposed difference between “pork” and “fork” is this? [pok] [fk] ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/66 "2014-05-16T21:51:29Z")
Dammit. Tapatalk isn’t letting me post IPA ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/67 "2014-05-16T21:52:29Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m 68. I guess the “younger generation” is everyone under 70. I just asked my husband, so make that under 80. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/68 "2014-05-16T22:51:56Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > This means that it’s the (East Coast) vowel sound of _bought_ combined with the vowel sound of _work_–which is indeed an unusual diphthong. What? There’s no way the vowel sound of bought as pronounced on the east coast could be in a pronunciation of pork: ught is pronounced as if it was ot. That’s why caught, cot, taught, tot, sought, sot, and brought all rhyme here. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/69 "2014-05-16T23:44:47Z")
> [@CheshireKat](#): > > I must say I enjoy this site. Before I discovered SDMB, I never would have found myself enunciating pork/fork over and over while drinking my morning cup of coffee. > > I feel like the Swedish Chef. 😃 Heyyyy!! As long as you weren’t laughing! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/70 "2014-05-17T00:24:29Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I don’t really see myself as “making an extraordinary claim” - I answered a question that was asked in IMHO. Frankly, I’m surprised that it’s even a matter for debate: many Scottish people speak this way and to me that’s unremarkable. > > Or to put it another way, I wasn’t aware that there was an ongoing Wiki edit war on the topic. If I had been, I’d just have kept my Scottish mouth shut. As a fellow Scot I’m with you Paul. I would never ever say that pork and fork rhyme. I thought it was Extraordinary" that people claimed they did rhyme 😕 I think we prounounce pork as the word ‘pour’ with a ‘k’ at the end. That’s the best I can explain it. Although given you are from the west (I believe) and I’m central we may say it differently to each other! ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/71 "2014-05-17T00:59:42Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > I think we prounounce pork as the word ‘pour’ with a ‘k’ at the end. > That’s the best I can explain it. Can’t argue with that. But then I pronounce “fork” as the word “pour” but with a “k” on the end and an “f” instead of a “p”. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/72 "2014-05-17T01:07:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > How does the first set not rhyme with the second set? I’m not au fait enough with phonetic symbols to tell the difference, but they are subtly different to me. The first set has a more rounded sound that’s almost an ascending sound, the second flatter and descending. I’m quite happy to admit I might be weird in this respect, but I’ll ask around my peers and report back. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/73 "2014-05-17T01:07:31Z")
> [@Arch\_Trout](#): > > As a fellow Scot I’m with you Paul. > > I would never ever say that pork and fork rhyme. > I thought it was Extraordinary" that people claimed they did rhyme 😕 > > I think we prounounce pork as the word ‘pour’ with a ‘k’ at the end. > That’s the best I can explain it. > > Although given you are from the west (I believe) and I’m central we may say it differently to each other! Phew. Seriously, I was starting to wonder if I was going mad. I think your explanation is as good as any other I’ve heard. I am from the west, yes, but haven’t noticed any real difference now that I live in the Lothians. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/74 "2014-05-17T01:10:12Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Can’t argue with that. > > But then I pronounce “fork” as the word “pour” but with a “k” on the end and an “f” instead of a “p”. Sure, that’s the problem with not being able to use the IPA properly. “Pour” and “fork” do not use the same vowel sound in Scottish English. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/75 "2014-05-17T01:11:21Z")
Yes, it’s pork/fork/cork/dork/bork – all the same. Of course, I live in Missouri, so they’re actually park/fark/cark/dark/bark. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/76 "2014-05-17T01:23:15Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > What? There’s no way the vowel sound of bought as pronounced on the east coast could be in a pronunciation of pork: ught is pronounced as if it was ot. That’s why caught, cot, taught, tot, sought, sot, and brought all rhyme here. They most definitely do not all rhyme where I am on the East Coast (New York.) -ught and -ot do not rhyme here and the vowel sound in _bought_ is the same as _pork_. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/77 "2014-05-17T01:50:02Z")
Does saying that pork and fork don’t rhyme mean they don’t rhyme in _any_ dialact of English, or that they don’t rhyme in _all_ dialects? I’d say they’d have to not rhyme in all dialects, or at least most of them, to say that they don’t rhyme in English. So not rhyming in _Scottish_ English doesn’t mean they don’t rhyme in English. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/78 "2014-05-17T02:00:31Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Yes, it’s pork/fork/cork/dork/bork – all the same. > > Of course, I live in Missouri, so they’re actually park/fark/cark/dark/bark. Are you in Mizour-ee or Mizour-uh? ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/79 "2014-05-17T02:10:01Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Does saying that pork and fork don’t rhyme mean they don’t rhyme in _any_ dialact of English, or that they don’t rhyme in _all_ dialects? I’d say they’d have to not rhyme in all dialects, or at least most of them, to say that they don’t rhyme in English. So not rhyming in _Scottish_ English doesn’t mean they don’t rhyme in English. I don’t think there’s any useful way to determine what definitively “rhymes in English”. It is true, I think, that the majority of English speakers would say that the words in question _do_ rhyme. That’s been my experience in England and the USA and is why I chose, in this poll, the option of “I’ve heard both” rather than “Of course they don’t rhyme, WTF is the matter with you?” But what do you mean when you speak of “English”? Apparently this is a definition that excludes 5 or 6 million speakers of the language. Which group of speakers gets to define how English is spoken? And it’s not the fact that we’re unusual that I object to - I already know that. It’s that people won’t even accept the fact that we exist. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/80 "2014-05-17T02:48:16Z")
They rhyme for me, but I have heard them not rhyming. [This link](http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/poor) has two pronunciations of “poor.” I know I have heard “pork” pronounced like the second pronunciation of “poor” only with a k at the end of it. Incidentally, I use the second pronunciation of “poor.” I don’t say “poork” though. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568.md?page=5)