# Does pork rhyme with fork/cork/dork/bork to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568 "2014-05-16T03:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/101 "2014-05-17T19:36:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Pork rhymes with gork, hork, jork, lork, mork, nork,rork,sork,tork, vork, and zork, as does fork. Anyone who doesn’t pronounce pork and fork to rhyme are putting on some ridiculous affectation. Eh? Edit - oops, missed the joke. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/102 "2014-05-19T13:07:03Z")
For some reason my quote from Johanna didn’t copy over. I know the sounds are different in GA and RP, but for some reason they’re usually written as if they’re the same. I’ve always found that annoying, but assumed that anyone else reading would have seen the same pronunciation guides I’d seen. It seemed to work out, anyway. 🙂 > [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Not really, if by “British R” you mean something like the non-rhotic r that you can hear in many English accents (for now at least, we Scots are British too). I pronounce the “r” rhotically in both words. > > As I said, I don’t know IPA, but the difference is like “poark” vs “fork”. But would your pork rhyme with anything else in your dialect? Like, say, poor? This was all about words with no rhymes, after all. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/103 "2014-05-19T13:22:06Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > But would your pork rhyme with anything else in your dialect? Like, say, poor? This was all about words with no rhymes, after all. Hmm. I can’t think of any words that rhyme with “pork”, no. I mean, the vowel sound is the same as in “oar” or “port”, but nothing else ending “-ork” springs to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/104 "2014-05-19T13:46:51Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > For some reason my quote from Johanna didn’t copy over. I know the sounds are different in GA and RP, but for some reason they’re usually written as if they’re the same. I’ve always found that annoying, but assumed that anyone else reading would have seen the same pronunciation guides I’d seen. What sounds are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/105 "2014-05-19T16:09:03Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > ETA: I guess the deep rooted question here is: Is Wikipedia wrong about this? It’s safe to say that any given Wikipedia page has seven random pieces of bullshit in it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/106 "2014-05-22T01:38:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What sounds are you talking about? We were discussing the vowels conventionally called “short o.” In America, the 2 different vowels that answer to that name are: [[ɑ], [ɔ]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_for_English)— while in England the 2 “short o” vowels are [[ɒ], [ɔ]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_for_English). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/107 "2014-05-22T01:50:08Z")
If you’ll look at the IPA for English chart I linked to, notice that a few dialects have 2 pronunciations for the vowel sound in words containing -“or”-: In Scotland English, the words _north, sort, warm_ have the vowel [ɔ], but the words _force, tore, boar, port_—and of course _pork_—have [o] instead. Ireland and Wales English also distinguish vowels in these two sets, but with somewhat different vowels. In RP, the first (NORTH) set has the plain [ɔ], but the second (FORCE) set has the diphthongized sound [ɔə] that we mentioned above. In America, there’s only [ɔ]. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/108 "2014-05-22T02:31:38Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > We were discussing the vowels conventionally called “short o.” > > In America, the 2 different vowels that answer to that name are: [[], []](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_for_English)— > > while in England the 2 “short o” vowels are [[], []](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA_for_English). Then I’m confused by SciFiSam’s statement that they are written the same. As your post shows, they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/109 "2014-05-22T02:33:06Z")
And dammit again Tapatalk dumps the IPA. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/110 "2014-05-22T05:14:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Then I’m confused by SciFiSam’s statement that they are written the same. As your post shows, they’re not. Mais non, mon cher. She meant that the same letter o is used to write the various different sounds. Of course the IPA glyphs will differ for different sounds; that’s the entire point of the phonetic alphabet, a one-to-one mapping of sound and glyph. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/111 "2014-05-22T11:21:40Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Mais non, mon cher. She meant that the same letter o is used to write the various different sounds. That’s the basic concept of an accent. I’m failing to understand which part is confusing. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/112 "2014-05-22T18:58:08Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m 68. I guess the “younger generation” is everyone under 70. That is essentially what I was going to say, but I bow to someone with three years more experience. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Toothpaste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@James\_Toothpaste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Toothpaste)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/113 "2014-05-22T20:52:00Z")
Yes, they always rhyme to me. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568/114 "2014-05-23T14:00:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s the basic concept of an accent. I’m failing to understand which part is confusing. I’m not confused; is anyone still confused at this point? I provided a cite, explained the dialectal phonetics, and corroborated **PaulParkhead** ’s Scottish accent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-pork-rhyme-with-fork-cork-dork-bork-to-you/688568.md?page=5)