# Does "progressive" mean liberal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336 "2004-10-26T23:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/21 "2004-10-27T07:02:49Z")
‘Progressive’ can also be used to describe taxes which place a greater burden on wealthier taxpayers, like the Federal income tax. On the other end of the spectrum are regressive taxes, like Social Security, which place a proportionately greater burden on poorer taxpayers. I thumbed through True Majority Action’s website and couldn’t find the word ‘progressive’, so I thought I might add this… just to be thorough. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/22 "2004-10-27T07:04:23Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > If you said to me that you were a progressive, I’d assume that you took the liberal or left-wing position on most social issues and thought of government as a useful tool of achieving such a social policy. That seems consistent with its use in the website I cited in my original post, as True Majority Action characterizes themselves as a group seeking to achieve social change. Still, I’m not sure that I know precisely what the meaning of “social issues” is. I presume foreign policy isn’t a “social issue”, and something like welfare reform definitely would be, but are all domestic issues social issues? Abortion, gay marriage, the death penalty, education? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/23 "2004-10-27T07:06:03Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Thanks, and don’t worry about it. Thanks. I appreciate it. 🙂 > [@tim314](#): > > I take it from your response that you take the term to be widely understood to mean a liberal of any degree. That’s correct. I would say that to most people it’s just another way of saying liberal. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/24 "2004-10-27T07:12:19Z")
> [@cornflakes](#): > > I thumbed through True Majority Action’s website and couldn’t find the word ‘progressive’, so I thought I might add this… just to be thorough. It’s possible they just use it in their mailings . . . it was actually an e-mail, not the website, which originally inspired my question. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/25 "2004-10-27T12:20:19Z")
By the way, Tim, liberal has more meanings, including theological and economic meanings. Republicans are traditionally a party loyal to economic liberalism (an unregulated free market, etc.), and many Republicans would consider themselves liberal in the original political meaning, committed to civil liberties (though not necessarily in the role of government to feed, clothe, educate, and provide healthcare to anyone). Only recently has liberal come to mean a whole host of “leftist” ideas, some of which aren’t even liberal by any definition of the word (like environmental conservation), just “liberal,” in the new rhetoric of divisive name calling. So progressive is a better word just for clarity. It means what people intend to mean when they say “liberal,” e.g., a tree-hugging welfare-state-supporting Wilco-listening lefty. 🙂 Kind of like me. I understand Starving Artist’s take (what does that make everyone else? Regressive?) but to suggest the word was coined to belittle others definitely begs for a political debate. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/26 "2004-10-27T12:52:47Z")
Adding to what others have said, yes, progressive means liberal, but in my observation, it is usually – but not always – liberalism with a some populism thrown in as well. For example, I’d say that Paul Wellstone and Russ Feingold as pretty well-known progressives. For the life of me, I could not bring myself to put the label progressive on a more establishment-oriented liberal like John Kerry. (Disclaimer: I am not a progressive, so I’m not trying to define progressive in a way that suits me personally. I am a liberal, but more of an establishment-type guy. I have lots of respect for folks like Wellstone and Feingold who I’d describe as “progressive,” but we don’t necessarily see eye-to-eye on everything. I am also using the term “liberal” to mean anyone who is even a little bit left of center, I’m not implying that Kerry or I are whacko-leftist kooks by calling us liberals.) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/27 "2004-10-27T16:38:46Z")
Keep in mind that one of the standard definitions of “conservative” is “cautious; not inclined to make changes rapidly or without a compelling reason”. So place that alongside of “progressive” and you have this image of change being something that occurs in a liberal direction, as if conservatives did not ever seek to change things in a conservative direction (or liberals ever seek merely to keep things as they are rather than allow change in a conservative direction). In the university political sciences classroom, this assumption is given additional impetus through the use of yet another term, “reactionary”, which means “actual movement in a conservative direction” (as opposed to “conservative”, meaning “not inclined to move [in a liberal direction]”) and which has the connotation of “things flowing in the reverse direction”, which again underlines the notion that the “normal” direction of change is “towards the liberal”. There is probably legitimate room to infer from this that the terminologies themselves reflect a bias towards liberalism as “the way things are supposed to be moving”. I’m not indicting that as an unfortunate bias, mind you 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/28 "2004-10-27T16:47:59Z")
In addition to Duckster’s list of the liberal parties who used the word “progressive,” also note that the liberal magazine _The Progressive_ was founded in 1909 by Robert LaFollette. While “progressive” in its strictest sense is not necessarily an exact synonym for “liberal,” it has certainly been used as such for a long time. That being said, “liberal” itself in its strictest sense is not necessarily precisely descriptive of the political viewpoint that we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/29 "2004-10-28T01:16:03Z")
Off to Great Debates. **DrMatrix** - GQ Moderator ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/30 "2004-10-28T01:29:55Z")
From the Wikipedia – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism:) > [@](#): > > In the United States, the term liberal has for many decades (at least since the New Deal) been used to describe the political left, and conservative the right. Since at least the late 1990s, the term progressive has been employed to describe certain leftist views of one form or another, for at least two reasons. > > The first is to create a contrast between center-left and farther-left politics. For example, John Kerry, Al Gore, and the Democratic Party are more likely to be described as or to describe themselves as liberal, whereas Howard Dean (a Democrat), Ralph Nader (endorsed by the Green Party in 2000) and the Green Party are more likely to be described as or to describe themselves as progressive. In addition to progressive third parties like the Greens, there is also a Progressive Caucus in the House of Representatives, made up of Democrats and an independent Congressman. (Note that the Democratic and Republican parties have not always represented the left and the right. The modern alignment has been strongest since the 1970s.) > > The second is to find a term with positive connotations. The intuitive opposite of liberal is conservative, which some people are proud to consider themselves. The intuitive opposite of progressive is regressive, a label with which hardly any person or political ideology would want to be associated. Critics of leftist politics often use the term liberals to describe their opponents, so distancing oneself from that term can be a rhetorical device to distance oneself from that criticism. (Both liberal and conservative can be quite pejorative when used by their critics on the opposite side.) Progressive connotes progress, a notion which is both positive and intuitively orthogonal to a left-right axis. > > Progressive and conservative are also intuitive opposites; the former represents change, the other, tradition. This replaces the distinction between large and small government (especially with regard to government spending) evoked by the pairing of liberal / conservative. These distinctions are, however, controversial and often inaccurate in predicting how either side feels about any given issue. > > Avoidance of the term liberal has the benefit of being less ambiguous. In other countries, the terms liberal and conservative may have slightly different or even completely opposite meanings than in the United States. Liberal can also mean free, as in freedom and free country. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/31 "2004-10-28T05:37:04Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Damn! **rjung** and I agree on something. I never thought I’d see the day! 😛 You’ll learn someday. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/32 "2004-10-28T13:29:06Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > My understanding is simply that, because the Republican Party has largely succeeded in turning “liberal” into a smear word (thanks in part to Newt Gingrich’s list of inflammatory political terms), some left-leaning/Democrat/liberal folks have switched to using the term “progressive” as a synonym instead. This is correct. But, there’s a large piece that’s missing from this picture. Many American’s self identify as conservatives. (It’s in the 40-45% range.) Very few American’s self identify as liberals. (Its less than 20%.) The simple fact is that it’s not much of a challenge for the conservatives to paint the “liberals” as a radical, fringe group of people that are way outside the mainstream of most American people. Because in many ways they are. So, the liberals need to repackage themselves using different labels, because the labels they have been using are now identified (correctly) as being outside the mainstream and out of touch. Wait a while and the same thing will happen with the new term. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/33 "2004-10-28T13:35:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > This is correct. But, there’s a large piece that’s missing from this picture. Many American’s self identify as conservatives. (It’s in the 40-45% range.) Very few American’s self identify as liberals. (Its less than 20%.) > > The simple fact is that it’s not much of a challenge for the conservatives to paint the “liberals” as a radical, fringe group of people that are way outside the mainstream of most American people. Because in many ways they are. > > So, the liberals need to repackage themselves using different labels, because the labels they have been using are now identified (correctly) as being outside the mainstream and out of touch. Wait a while and the same thing will happen with the new term. There is a great element of self-fulfilling prophesy here. The idea that “liberal” is outside the mainstream was not a common perception of the public until the Republicans started to propagandize that point. There were plenty of people who were comfortable with the label “liberal” until they started hearing that it’s somehow a bad thing. Note that when it comes to specific policy positions, “liberal” positions are very mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/34 "2004-10-28T13:42:32Z")
I disagree with the statement that liberals are outside the mainstream. Social security was once a liberal idea, now it’s mainstream. Universal health care was a liberal pipe dream, now it seems inevitable. Prescription drug coverage for seniors was a liberal scheme, Bush took the idea and adopted a meager benefit as his idea. If you were for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, you were a liberal. Now it’s unthinkable that we could be without it. Many Americans scoff at liberalism, but are all too happy to reap the benefits of liberal ideas. Liberals are progressive and progressives are liberal. Either label I am proud to wear. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336/35 "2004-10-28T13:58:33Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So, the liberals need to repackage themselves using different labels, because the labels they have been using are now identified (correctly) as being outside the mainstream and out of touch. Wait a while and the same thing will happen with the new term. “Out of touch,” doesn’t necessarily follow from “outside the mainstream.” Maybe it’s out of the mainstream to be IN touch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-progressive-mean-liberal/271336.md?page=1)