# Does rank carry across branches of the US military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545 "2002-12-29T21:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xgemina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b5e925/32.png) [@Xgemina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xgemina)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/41 "2002-12-31T18:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > We all know a Major outranks a Lt. How come, then, a Lt General outranks a Major General? Originally the ranks were Lt. General (cavalry commander) who was a higher rank than a Sgt.Maj. General (infantry commander). Over time the Sgt.Maj. Gen became Maj. General as Army command structures unified. As to your cow-orker’s story, yes it could very well have happened. Sounds like they ran into a security patrol in an area where they should not have been. And, no, the major would not have been able to tell them to piss off if they were doing their duty. Undoubtably the security guys were polite to the officer but if your cow-orker and his brother were in a restricted area they, the security patrol, would have the authority to do what they did. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/42 "2002-12-31T18:09:56Z")
The “nope” was to **jk** ’s last questions. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/43 "2002-12-31T18:11:26Z")
BTW, [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=133097) has some good info on authority and rank issues in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/44 "2002-12-31T18:21:04Z")
…and while I’m thinking of it, a very common example of this is the OOD. As **UncleBill** mentioned in carrying the authority of the CO, most (all?) OOD’s do this. On a cutter, whether in port or underway, the only 2 people that don’t have to answer to the OD are the CO and XO. The OOD’s at various units can be of almost any rank or grade. I was a patrol boat inport OOD as an E3 (rated striker). However, it’s best to keep in mind that you’re only an OOD for one day out of many, so if you piss off your sup on your duty day, he’s still got your ass on the next hot workday. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/45 "2002-12-31T18:31:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WillSantini \* > The Marine Corps is not a branch off the Navy. Hie ye, kindly, to [http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html) and you will discover that the United States government disagrees with you on that: > [@](#): > > The Department of the Navy consists of two uniformed Services: the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps. > > And yes, rank does carry across branches of the US military, and in some cases the militaries of our allies. Actually, it carries across to all militaries. There’s that whole Geneva Convention thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/46 "2002-12-31T18:56:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Hie ye, kindly, to [http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html) and you will discover that the United States government disagrees with you on that: > Actually, it carries across to all militaries. There’s that whole Geneva Convention thing going on. \*\* The Marine Corps falls under the leadership of the Secretary of the Navy, it is not a branch off the Navy. And for what it’s worth: The Department of the Navy is soon to change its title to The Department of the Navy and Marine Corps. As far as having to salute ALL militaries, that is not true. We would not salute officers of enemy militaries. Not every country has agreed to the Geneva Convention. Semper Fi ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/47 "2002-12-31T19:03:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _U.S. Constitution, Art. II, Sec 2_ > [The President] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Minsters and Counsuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein provided for and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments. I think (no cite) that this applies to military officers of the U.S., and not just civil officers. I think that Congress has passed legislation allowing the appointment and promotion of military officers below a certain level without Senate approval, but to be promoted into the higher ranks, the Advice and Consent of the Senate is required (though little advice and free consent is usually given). I would imagine the promotion of a General/Admiral to five-star rank would be one of those instances where there would be discussion in the Senate over the appropriateness of the promotion. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/48 "2002-12-31T19:33:55Z")
Interesting info. Thanks to all who responded to my questions. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/49 "2002-12-31T19:48:05Z")
Don’t tell me I’m telling a lie, Will. I usually bristle quite abruptly over that sort of stuff. I know that not all countries have agreed to the Geneva Conventions. It’s irrelevant if a particular country agrees to it or not–the thing still applies. Say you’re a prisoner of war. You are required to salute the camp commander, for one. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/50 "2002-12-31T19:56:43Z")
I’ll check my commission when I get home, see who signed it. And **jk1245** , that’s what we’re her for! ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/51 "2002-12-31T19:59:55Z")
OK, some citations: Under the US Code, there are differences in the authority for appointment and promotion of officers in the Regular and Reserve components of the armed forces, and also differences depending on active-duty status. For appointment as an officer in the Regular Army/Navy/AF/MC in any grade 2nd Lt-Colonel or Ensign-Captain, the President must have the advice and consent of the Senate: [10 USC 531(a)](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/10/subtitles/a/parts/ii/chapters/33/sections/section_531.html) For promotion in any officer on the active-duty list, the President may promote to 1st Lt & Capt or Lt (JG) or Lt alone, but requires Senate advice and consent for promotions to Major or Lt. Commander: [10 USC 624©](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/10/subtitles/a/parts/ii/chapters/36/subchapters/ii/sections/section_624.html) Reserve officers in the grades of 2nd Lt-Major or Ensign-Lt. Commander may be appointed by the President alone, while Lt. Colonels/Colonels and Commanders/Captains require Senate advice and consent: [10 USC 12203(a)](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/10/subtitles/e/parts/ii/chapters/1205/sections/section_12203.html). Promotion of such officers (not on-active duty status) is by the same rules. [10 USC 14308©(1)](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/10/subtitles/e/parts/iii/chapters/1405/sections/section_14308.html) Authority for promotion to General/Flag Officer rank is left as an exercise for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/52 "2002-12-31T20:02:26Z")
Oops, sorry about that blown link/sidescroll thing. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/53 "2002-12-31T20:12:53Z")
Whoa there, **Monty** , nobody called you a liar, but anyone can be mistaken. AR 600-25 1-3.c: “It is customery to salute officers of friendly foriegn nations when recognized as such. The Commander in Chief, US Army, Europe and Seventh Army; Commander, US Army, Japan; Commander Eighth US Army; and the Commander, US Army Communications Command are delegated authority to establish recognition courtesies prevailing locally for foriegn officials. This authority will not be delegated farther.” And from the [Camp Lejeune page](http://www.lejeune.usmc.mil/2dfssg/med/files/102.htm): > [@](#): > > 102 NAVY AND MARINE CORPS HISTORY, CUSTOMS, AND COURTESIES > > FUNDAMENTALS > > 1. Salute officers, regular and reserve, of the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and foreign military and naval officers whose Governments are formally recognized by the U.S. Government. > > c. DO NOT SALUTE WHEN: > a. At work indoors (except when under arms) > b. Guarding prisoners > c. Under battle conditions > d. A prisoner ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/54 "2002-12-31T20:34:10Z")
Thanks for the back up **UncleBill**. Semper Fi ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/55 "2002-12-31T21:00:55Z")
**Monty** , we had this discussion about saluting hostile forces before. Myself and other posters have provided cites stating that you do not salute in these circumstances. From where does your claim that we are supposed to salute originate? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/56 "2002-12-31T21:37:41Z")
Not to speak for **Monty** , but he likes to cite the [Geneva Convention](http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm) which says: > [@](#): > > Chapter VI > > DISCIPLINE > > Article 39 > > Every prisoner of war camp shall be put under the immediate authority of a responsible commissioned officer belonging to the regular armed forces of the Detaining Power. Such officer shall have in his possession a copy of the present Convention; he shall ensure that its provisions are known to the camp staff and the guard and shall be responsible, under the direction of his government, for its application. > > Prisoners of war, with the exception of officers, must salute and show to all officers of the Detaining Power the external marks of respect provided for by the regulations applying in their own forces. > > Officer prisoners of war are bound to salute only officers of a higher rank of the Detaining Power; they must, however, salute the camp commander regardless of his rank. But until one is a POW to a Geneva Convention country, one does not salute Enemy Officers, and even then I would guess it is very begrudgingly. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/57 "2002-12-31T23:18:15Z")
OK, I see where he’s coming from. So to sum up: You do not salute officers of nations who aren’t recognized by the U.S., unless you are their POW, and they are signatory to the GC. Interesting that nowhere in the regs, it seems, is this requirement mentioned. Out of curiosity, is this specified in any U.S. originated material, military or otherwise? I ran a quick word search of the Code of Conduct and saluting was not found, nor do I remember the subject ever coming up in training. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/58 "2002-12-31T23:33:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WillSantini \* > The Marine Corps falls under the leadership of the Secretary of the Navy, it is not a branch off the Navy. In other words: The Marine Corps is part of the Department of the Navy. > [@](#): > > And for what it’s worth: The Department of the Navy is soon to change its title to The Department of the Navy and Marine Corps. May I see a cite for that? Please don’t use the Identification Card instrustion for that as that thing’s title page actually has “Secretary of the Coast Guard” on it. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/59 "2003-01-01T00:21:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Billdo \* > \*\*Oops, sorry about that blown link/sidescroll thing. \*\* Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545/60 "2003-01-01T01:11:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\* May I see a cite for that? \*\* [H.R. 3478](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.3478:) was introduced in December, 2001. [S. 2718](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:SN02718:) went to the Committee on Armed Services in July, 2002. Bill is to change SecNav to “Secretary of the Navy and Marine Corps”. The Department of the Navy is the “boss” of the US Navy and the “boss” of the US Marine Corps, although if you google “Department of the Navy and Marine Corps” it seems to be in common use today. The Secretary of the Navy’s website says on the [Responsibilities](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/people/secnav/responsi.html) page > [@](#): > > The Department of the Navy consists of two uniformed Services: the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps. It is correct to say the US Marine Corps is part of the Department of the Navy, just like the US Navy is part of the Department of the Navy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-rank-carry-across-branches-of-the-us-military/145545.md?page=4)