# Does religion have a place in public debate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709 "2019-05-29T15:02:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/1 "2019-05-29T15:02:12Z")
Prompted by **k9bfriender** ’s post in the thread [POST=21664015]_“Pro-lifers want to control women’s bodies” - Okay, but…why?_[/POST] Does religion have a place in public debate? I’m primarily interested in American debate, but the question’s scope is not necessarily limited to the United States. I am aware of arguments on both sides of the issue, and as of yet, am convinced by none. I suspect there are fundamental disagreements as to the purpose of public debate, the freedom of religion, and the separation of church and state. So what do you think, readers of the Straight Dope Message Boards? Should religion have a place in public debate? Why or why not? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/2 "2019-05-29T15:05:30Z")
That’s kind of hard to answer without really knowing what “have a place” means. In debate, do you mean, one side using their religion as a talking point or reference for argument? (i.e., a Muslim demanding that non-Muslim people abide by his Quran) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/3 "2019-05-29T15:07:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s kind of hard to answer without really knowing what “have a place” means. In debate, do you mean, one side using their religion as a talking point or reference for argument? (i.e., a Muslim demanding that non-Muslim people abide by his Quran) Or a politician saying this country is based on the teachings of the Bible…which is more likely by a factor of 1000? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/4 "2019-05-29T15:23:43Z")
Religion absolutely has a place in public debate. Religion has no place in political social policy debate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/5 "2019-05-29T15:38:03Z")
I absolutely believe that people should talk about their religionosity-If they are willing to follow their religious tenets to the point of scrapping parts of the Constitution, I want to know ahead of time. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/6 "2019-05-29T15:40:32Z")
No. It should have nothing whatsoever to do with policy, vis-a-vis the state. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/7 "2019-05-29T16:01:04Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Religion absolutely has a place in public debate. > > Religion has no place in political social policy debate. This is what I believe. The first because everything that affects humans “has a place in public debate”. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/8 "2019-05-29T16:23:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Religion absolutely has a place in public debate. > > Religion has no place in political social policy debate. Yes, I mean political debate about social policies. ETA: Why not? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/9 "2019-05-29T16:24:44Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes, I mean political debate about social policies. > > ETA: Why not? > > ~Max Because social policy should be debated on the grounds of evidence, logic, and data, not superstition. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/10 "2019-05-29T16:27:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s kind of hard to answer without really knowing what “have a place” means. In debate, do you mean, one side using their religion as a talking point or reference for argument? (i.e., a Muslim demanding that non-Muslim people abide by his Quran) By “having a place”, I mean should it take up air time, newspaper space, blog entries, conversations in-person, etcetera. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/11 "2019-05-29T16:33:25Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes, I mean political debate about social policies. > > ETA: Why not? > > ~Max Because religion is not a basis on which to build a just society. If you disagree, I challenge you to cite one country governed by religious doctrine that you would call a just society. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/12 "2019-05-29T16:34:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > By “having a place”, I mean should it take up air time, newspaper space, blog entries, conversations in-person, etcetera. > > ~Max Then it’s usually impossible for it \*\*not \*\*to have a place. You have to cover what’s there. Christianity, etc., has a real influence on many people and things. You couldn’t not cover it in media if it has an influence. How is the media and social media supposed to cover things like the pro-life movement, traditional marriage movement, etc., without pointing out that there is a lot of religious reason propelling such movements? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/13 "2019-05-29T16:34:37Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > By “having a place”, I mean should it take up air time, newspaper space, blog entries, conversations in-person, etcetera. > > ~Max No-one has objected thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/14 "2019-05-29T16:36:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because social policy should be debated on the grounds of evidence, logic, and data, not superstition. I take it you identify religion with superstition: the absence of evidence, logic, and data. I am not religious but it is my understanding that religious people necessarily disagree with you. What is your next step? Do you debate them on the merits of their religion? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/15 "2019-05-29T16:38:57Z")
The purpose of debate is to persuade others to your view. If you’re religious and you’re trying to persuade non-believers, then it’s unlikely they are going to be impressed by arguments that appeal to your religion. Imagine a debate that looks like this: “We should ban pork.” “No, we shouldn’t. Pork is a great source of protein and it tastes great. The benefits greatly outweigh the risks.” “Pork is unclean and is not fit to be eaten.” “According to whom? I eat it all the time and nothing bad has happened.” “Ah, that you know of. Your soul is violated every time you eat that wicked flesh of the devil.” “Dude, what are you talking–” “The Koran says…” Not very compelling is it? I’m trying to imagine an example of how a religious-based argument would ever be persuasive to someone who is not a follower, and I’m drawing a blank. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/16 "2019-05-29T16:40:41Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I take it you identify religion with superstition: the absence of evidence, logic, and data. Don’t you? > [@Max\_S](#): > > I am not religious but it is my understanding that religious people necessarily disagree with you. What is your next step? Do you debate them on the merits of their religion? > > ~Max If their religious convictions impinge on my human rights, you’re damn right I will. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/17 "2019-05-29T16:42:17Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The purpose of debate is to persuade others to your view. If you’re religious and you’re trying to persuade non-believers, then it’s unlikely they are going to be impressed by arguments that appeal to your religion. Imagine a debate that looks like this: > > “We should ban pork.” > > “No, we shouldn’t. Pork is a great source of protein and it tastes great. The benefits greatly outweigh the risks.” > > “Pork is unclean and is not fit to be eaten.” > > “According to whom? I eat it all the time and nothing bad has happened.” > > “Ah, that you know of. Your soul is violated every time you eat that wicked flesh of the devil.” > > “Dude, what are you talking–” > > “The Koran says…” > > Not very compelling is it? I’m trying to imagine an example of how a religious-based argument would ever be persuasive to someone who is not a follower, and I’m drawing a blank. Then does religion have a place in public political debate _among followers of the same religion_? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/18 "2019-05-29T16:43:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Then it’s usually impossible for it \*\*not \*\*to have a place. You have to cover what’s there. Christianity, etc., has a real influence on many people and things. You couldn’t not cover it in media if it has an influence. How is the media and social media supposed to cover things like the pro-life movement, traditional marriage movement, etc., without pointing out that there is a lot of religious reason propelling such movements? I had in mind coverage with intent to persuade, not mere coverage for newsworthiness. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/19 "2019-05-29T16:43:54Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Then does religion have a place in public political debate _among followers of the same religion_? > > ~Max Sure it does. But they still ought to account for the fact that many in their city/state/nation are non-followers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709/20 "2019-05-29T16:44:44Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I take it you identify religion with superstition: the absence of evidence, logic, and data. Generally, yes. > [@](#): > > I am not religious but it is my understanding that religious people necessarily disagree with you. What is your next step? Do you debate them on the merits of their religion? > > ~Max If that’s how they present their arguments, then perhaps. If they say “this is the right thing because the Bible/Quran/etc. says so”, then I’ll respond that public policy should not be based on the teachings of religious texts, but rather on evidence, logic, and data. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-religion-have-a-place-in-public-debate/834709.md?page=2)