# Does Sanders have appeal beyond white liberals **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 27, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017 "2015-08-27T03:27:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/41 "2015-08-30T01:20:42Z")
Besides, I think **Qin** is over 20 now, anyway. That said, > [@](#): > > According to the reactionary Supreme Court, yes. Too bad the court-packing scheme by FDR didn’t succeed smh. If FDR’s court-packing scheme had succeeded, we’d now be living in a system with only two branches of government. Or probably only one, in practice: The checks and balances would allow the execudiciary to very quickly and effectively nullify Congress. That’s too much power to entrust to any one man. (and what’s “smh”?) ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/42 "2015-08-30T03:04:00Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’d be surprised if even 1 in 10 black voters have heard of Cornel West, much less base their vote off of his endorsement as opposed to say that of President Obama’s. I mean if Thomas Sowell endorsed (say) Ted Cruz, I doubt people would be saying Cruz has won the black vote as a result. > > As a Sanders supporter, I find the contrast between Sanders and Trump’s handling of the hecklers most disfavourable to the former. Moral nilhists who practice terrorist/hostage-taker logic and were not even part of the BLM movement deserve to be ignored and kicked out, not appeased undermining Sanders’s appearance of strength. The BLM movement did not dismiss those women in fact they understood that activism is messy and unpleasant- and now Bernie has a Social Justice platform that directly addresses their concerns around police brutality. Bernie even consulted with the leaders of the movement in drafting the plan. This all occurred after the podium disruption, and Bernie was smart to get endorsement from the movement. Contrast the optics of that and of Ramos, a respected journalist/activist, who may have let emotion dictate his interaction with Trump, but when Trump dismissed and then had him removed, then brought him back in to berate him, Trump did nothing to make gains in the Latino vote. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/43 "2015-08-30T03:08:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > (and what’s “smh”?) smh-shaking my head. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/44 "2015-08-30T22:43:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s overly-simplistic to say that Sanders can’t win because the machine doesn’t support him. The only reason the machine is currently supporting Clinton instead of Sanders is because of the perception that she has a better chance of winning. If that perception shifts, then so will the machine’s support. I don’t think that is the only reason, I think a big part of it is that Sanders is a genuine progressive who is hostile to the health care industry, financial industry, criminal justice industry, etc. I don’t think the dems want a progressive to get the nomination because that will scare corporations who will dump money into the GOP as a response. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/45 "2015-08-31T15:01:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s overly-simplistic to say that Sanders can’t win because the machine doesn’t support him. The only reason the machine is currently supporting Clinton instead of Sanders is because of the perception that she has a better chance of winning. If that perception shifts, then so will the machine’s support. It ain’t that simple. The corporations control the machine, they control Clinton, but they don’t control Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/46 "2015-08-31T22:46:35Z")
True. Clinton’s got Wall Street. Sanders has an army of white men. So what? The Republicans have an army of white men and Wall Street. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/47 "2015-08-31T23:24:54Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > and besides being a woman, Hillary targets women, and does it with simple messages. Yes, “like you, I also have a vagina” is a pretty simple message for her to put out there. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/48 "2015-09-01T00:10:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True. Clinton’s got Wall Street. Sanders has an army of white men. So what? The Republicans have an army of white men and Wall Street. I was at a Bernie Sanders meeting recently and about 20 people were there. A full 5% of them were non-whites. So that is progress brah. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/49 "2015-09-01T00:23:18Z")
I am optimistic that he can make progress. He’s certainly making an effort. I’d like to see Sanders be the nominee. Not for cynical reasons, but just to show that Democrats are just as dissatisfied with the establishment as Republicans. Things need to change. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/50 "2015-09-01T02:47:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You do realize that the NIRA was unconstitutional, right? That does not mean its purpose was anything other than what FDR said it was. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/51 "2015-09-01T02:57:17Z")
That was what FDR wanted it to be, but the Democrats in Congress, especially the Southern Dems, had less pure motives. And they wrote the legislation, controlled the committees. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/52 "2015-09-01T03:24:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That does not mean its purpose was anything other than what FDR said it was. Its purpose was to violate the Constitution. I know, you’re OK with that, the rest of us are not. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/53 "2015-09-01T03:28:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Its purpose was to violate the Constitution. I know, you’re OK with that, the rest of us are not. That is irrelevant to the question of whether it or any other minimum-wage law was intended to “keep blacks from competing with whites by accepting a lower wage.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/54 "2015-09-01T13:59:12Z")
Its purpose was not to violate the Constitution. Its _means_ violated the Constitution, but it’s not like FDR woke up, rubbed his hands maniacally, and said “Mwahaha! I want to undermine our system of government, how can I most effectively do so? I know, I’ll impose a minimum wage!”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/55 "2015-09-01T14:15:56Z")
Actually, FDR, like many progressives of the time and to some extent even now, was critical of the limits the Constitution placed on government. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/56 "2015-09-01T14:54:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, FDR, like many progressives of the time and to some extent even now, was critical of the limits the Constitution placed on government. See [_The Frozen Republic: How the Constitution Is Paralyzing Democracy,_](http://www.amazon.com/The-Frozen-Republic-Constitution-Paralyzing/dp/0156004941) by Daniel Lazare; it’s a real eye-opener WRT constitutional history. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/57 "2015-09-01T15:02:20Z")
The Constitution is supposed to paralyze democracy. That’s a feature, not a bug. Democracy is a means. Liberty is the end. Where democracy can threaten individual liberty, democracy has to be curtailed. And thus the Constitution does so. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/58 "2015-09-03T03:16:06Z")
Serious question I’d like to piggyback: His name _is_ pronounced “Sanders” as in “Colonel Sanders,” right? Because the Brits on BBC keep pronouncing it “Saunders.” Or have I just been away from the US too long? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/59 "2015-09-03T04:49:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Constitution is supposed to paralyze democracy. That’s a feature, not a bug. Democracy is a means. Liberty is the end. No, sir, it’s a bug, not a feature. The point of democracy is not liberty. The point of democracy is to make the state do what the people want it to do – as it should, regardless of whether that serves liberty or not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017/60 "2015-09-03T06:29:27Z")
That’s another way of saying the government must exist because it must exist. Whereas I say, and the founders say, that the purpose of government is to secure the blessings of liberty. The government exists as a means to an end, whereas you are arguing that the government is the end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-sanders-have-appeal-beyond-white-liberals/729017.md?page=4)