# Does Satan think God's predictions are wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058 "2012-07-22T17:56:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/21 "2012-07-22T23:38:30Z")
I believe I was taught that the Devil would rule in Hell for all eternity. He would be vanquished on earth, but not destroyed. IANAT. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > … > [Satan is] mentioned as early as his deception of Eve in the bible. > … Can you provide the chapter and verse for that? Because all I can find is a reference to the serpent, and no later Biblical identification of the serpent as Satan. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/22 "2012-07-22T23:39:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think the belief is that Satan is on earth, doing his dirty work. Therefore, he’s been booted from heaven. This isn’t a banner I want to carry because I put Satan in the same camp as the Easter bunny. > > He’s mentioned as early as his deception of Eve in the bible. No, that was a snake. Identifying the snake with an evil Satan (unlike the one in Job) is the purest retconning. > [@](#): > > To answer the OP’s question and assuming Satan exists, he has no choice but to fight the good fight and hope he can win in the long run. He probably adopted that mindset after his “Oh shit” moment when he was booted from heaven. Then he has no free will? Or is he just very stupid? Or does he have some inside information that God, or the inspired Bible, isn’t accurate? Clearly any definition of a real Satan is even more self-contradictory than a definition of God, and identifying Satan with internal evil is just trivializing the entire concept. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/23 "2012-07-22T23:40:36Z")
> [@Victor\_Charlie](#): > > It would seem a little odd for God’s nearly omnipotent chief nemesis to be unaware of the prophecy. It’s not like he’d need a visit from the Gideons to catch wind of what was going down. He has, after all, spent thousands of years tempting men away from God. And it is commonly said that the Devil quotes Scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/24 "2012-07-22T23:44:47Z")
And while we’re at it: It has always struck me that if there was a Hell ruled by Satan, it would look more like Shaw’s hell than Dante’s. Why would an intelligent Devil hurt recruiting by making his place so unattractive? Even the owners of fleabag hotels are smarter than that. If he doesn’t control it, then the terrors of hell all come from God, who definitely could turn the place into a Holiday Inn at the snap of a finger. Then it isn’t Satan’s fault at all - he is trapped just as much as any soul, which is Dante’s version. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/25 "2012-07-22T23:51:06Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Can you provide the chapter and verse for that? Because all I can find is a reference to the serpent, and no later Biblical identification of the serpent as Satan. Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2 define that serpent in Adam and Eve as Satan. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/26 "2012-07-22T23:55:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And while we’re at it: > It has always struck me that if there was a Hell ruled by Satan, it would look more like Shaw’s hell than Dante’s. Why would an intelligent Devil hurt recruiting by making his place so unattractive? Even the owners of fleabag hotels are smarter than that. If he doesn’t control it, then the terrors of hell all come from God, who definitely could turn the place into a Holiday Inn at the snap of a finger. Then it isn’t Satan’s fault at all - he is trapped just as much as any soul, which is Dante’s version. The devil’s plan is akin to the stockholm syndrome, if the sufferers only source of relief is Satan himself then those people will worship him. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/27 "2012-07-22T23:57:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The devil’s plan is akin to the stockholm syndrome, if the sufferers only source of relief is Satan himself then those people will worship him. How is that different from what god does? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/28 "2012-07-22T23:58:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How is that different from what god does? In what respect (really)? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/29 "2012-07-22T23:59:44Z")
People worship god because they believe he is the only path to salvation. He even makes that claim. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/30 "2012-07-23T00:11:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > People worship god because they believe he is the only path to salvation. He even makes that claim. I do understand, but I believe I have found that this is not the case, this is what the devil wants, for if we do what you state we worship Satan, not God. This is partly because it is in the spirit of fear. My very basic understanding of salvation is we acknowledge we are a child of God, which puts God as our Father, where God = Love and it’s a done deal from this point on. No worship required at all, no following commandments, no possibility of sin because it is no longer our responsibility as we are the children and our parents (Mother and Father God) are responsible for us. I have alos found that this will lead over time to us wanting to worship God, but it is not required it is a heart expressed expression of gratitude. You may claim you find that scriptures seem to contraindicate this, scriptures itself is not enough and we all know that scriptures can be used to justify all types of atrocities and oppressions. It is the spirit in which you interpret scriptures that matter, unless you interpret scriptures in the Spirit of Love (God is Love so that is the Spirit of God), then you are not interpreting them by the Holy Spirit and your interpertation is, well basically demonic, satanic and worldly. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/31 "2012-07-23T00:13:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2 define that serpent in Adam and Eve as Satan. > > YMMV **Kanicbird** got it. I don’t believe the bible ever states Satan was in the Garden of Eden, however, Satan is called the _ancient serpent_ in Revelation. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/32 "2012-07-23T00:24:36Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **Kanicbird** got it. I don’t believe the bible ever states Satan was in the Garden of Eden, however, Satan is called the _ancient serpent_ in Revelation. It’s more then this however, but something I call ‘oneness’. Jesus calls Peter ‘Satan’ in Matt 16:23 and Mark 8:33. It is when 2 become 1, where our weaknesses allow Satan to control us. A serpent, sometimes called a snake, is simply a animal that slithers and is not the devil. But Satan became ‘one’ with this animal in the garden, and bore the punishment where Satan got off scott free (as only one had to bear the punishment). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/33 "2012-07-23T00:25:30Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > You may claim you find that scriptures seem to contraindicate this, scriptures itself is not enough and we all know that scriptures can be used to justify all types of atrocities and oppressions. It is the spirit in which you interpret scriptures that matter, unless you interpret scriptures in the Spirit of Love (God is Love so that is the Spirit of God), then you are not interpreting them by the Holy Spirit and your interpertation is, well basically demonic, satanic and worldly. It appears you do not believe in the Judeo-Christian god, so it is difficult for me to debate from an informed position. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/34 "2012-07-23T00:25:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And while we’re at it: > It has always struck me that if there was a Hell ruled by Satan, it would look more like Shaw’s hell than Dante’s. Why would an intelligent Devil hurt recruiting by making his place so unattractive? Even the owners of fleabag hotels are smarter than that. If he doesn’t control it, then the terrors of hell all come from God, who definitely could turn the place into a Holiday Inn at the snap of a finger. Then it isn’t Satan’s fault at all - he is trapped just as much as any soul, which is Dante’s version. Of course the idea that Satan _rules_ Hell is also extra-biblical. In [Revelation 20](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=NIV), for example, Satan is “bound” in the “Abyss” which is “locked and sealed” for a thousand years (during the Millennium); afterwards, Satan is released (for some reason) and is described as fighting _on Earth_ before being defeated a second time and cast into a “lake of burning sulfur” along with “the beast and the false prophet” to be “tormented day and night for ever and ever”. So, both Hell-like places described here–the Abyss and the lake of burning sulfur or lake of fire–are places of imprisonment and punishment for Satan and his various associates, not places where Satan rules. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/35 "2012-07-23T00:29:08Z")
Satan knows that he is ultimately screwed so he wants to take as many people down with him as he can before that happens. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/36 "2012-07-23T00:33:33Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Rev 12:9 and Rev 20:2 define that serpent in Adam and Eve as Satan. > > YMMV Ah, no wonder I couldn’t find it. No. Wait. Both verses refer to the dragon, an ancient serpent. The serpent in Genesis was cursed to crawl on its belly on the ground. And humans will crush the serpent’s head, and the serpent strike at their heels. I don’t mean to be an aggressive literalist, but I cannot accept those descriptions as of the same creature. All of which, I admit, has little to do with the topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/37 "2012-07-23T00:42:56Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I don’t mean to be an aggressive literalist, but I cannot accept those descriptions as of the same creature. Hence the ‘YMMV’ ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/38 "2012-07-23T00:45:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It appears you do not believe in the Judeo-Christian god, so it is difficult for me to debate from an informed position. To me the ‘Judeo-Christian god’ is Satan. the God of Love is the one Jesus communicated with and tried (and succeeded) to live His live in ‘oneness’ with. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/39 "2012-07-23T00:52:22Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To me the ‘Judeo-Christian god’ is Satan. the God of Love is the one Jesus communicated with and tried to live His live in ‘oneness’ with. Jesus said only through me can you know the father. How is this not the same as the Stockholm Syndrome you ascribed to Satan? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058/40 "2012-07-23T00:55:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why would he? Does Satan read the bible? Possibly not, but then again there’s bound to be more than a few eminent churchmen Down There to fill him in on the details. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-satan-think-gods-predictions-are-wrong/629058.md?page=3)