# Does “Shadism” and “Colorism” exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637 "2013-01-18T18:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/21 "2013-01-19T14:35:04Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Indians definitely have shadism ideals. One of our highest compliments for a girl is that she is “gori”, or fair-skinned. They say it about men, too “kitna gora hai;” look how light he is. Fight my ignorance here: I was under the impression that this was disguised anti-Tamil racism - basically the blacker you were the more Tamil blood you had - and the Dravidians (?) have been fighting the Tamils over India for millennia. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/22 "2013-01-19T15:39:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Both of his parents are black, though\*. So it makes sense to me to call the dude “black”, if only to distinguish him from someone with white-black parentage. I’m aware _Purple Rain_ is fiction. But I thought the Kid had been given a similar biracial background to what has Prince Rogers Nelson has in real life. My understanding was that his father, John Nelson (aka Prince Rogers), was half black and half white and his mother, Mattie Shaw Nelson, was white. Checking into this, I see that it’s less clear than I thought. Apparently Prince himself has given different versions of his ethnic background. For what it’s worth, here’s a picture of [John Nelson](http://s.discogss.com/image/A-653118-1256577643.jpeg) and [Mattie Shaw](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/klick2u/mother.jpg). And here’s a picture of Prince’s sister, [Tyka Nelson](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IieevV9ooqM/SiHwWUw7T0I/AAAAAAAADMM/cAcIvR5rMCs/s400/A-300307-1147386238.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/23 "2013-01-19T15:54:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m aware _Purple Rain_ is fiction. But I thought the Kid had been given a similar biracial background to what has Prince Rogers Nelson has in real life. My understanding was that his father, John Nelson (aka Prince Rogers), was half black and half white and his mother, Mattie Shaw Nelson, was white. He invented Kid’s parentage to make it harder for people to track down his mother and harass her. Both of his parents are black. Of mixed heritage, like the majority of black Americans. But neither are biracial. Or horse, despite appearances. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/24 "2013-01-19T16:12:09Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Not only bi-racial couples. I’ve noticed myself that when an American drama shows a black couple, the woman is usually lighter-skinned than the man. > > I’m sure there are exceptions (I hope there are exceptions), but once you notice the trend, it does get a bit irritating. A friend of mine, herself a light complexioned biracial woman, pointed this out to me several years back with regard to the Disney series _The Proud Family_. She said while she was happy there was a show for kids about a black family, it bothered her that the female characters were nearly all light-skinned while the men were darker. (Here are the [characters](http://tv.disney.go.com/disneychannel/theproudfamily/characters/index.html) on the Disney website.) The only major exception seems to be the light-skinned main character Penny’s best friend, who is relatively dark-skinned…but has blonde hair. And this is an animated show, so the characters _could_ have been any complexion at all. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/25 "2013-01-19T16:23:38Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > A friend of mine, herself a light complexioned biracial woman, pointed this out to me several years back with regard to the Disney series _The Proud Family_. She said while she was happy there was a show for kids about a black family, it bothered her that the female characters were nearly all light-skinned while the men were darker. (Here are the [characters](http://tv.disney.go.com/disneychannel/theproudfamily/characters/index.html) on the Disney website.) The only major exception seems to be the light-skinned main character Penny’s best friend, who is relatively dark-skinned…but has blonde hair. And this is an animated show, so the characters _could_ have been any complexion at all. The villainous little girls are also purplish-blue. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/26 "2013-01-19T16:25:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course, [now it means “atheist.”](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bright) As an atheist, the moniker “Bright” has made me puke since I first became aware of it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/27 "2013-01-19T16:56:58Z")
> [@hrhomer](#): > > As an atheist, the moniker “Bright” has made me puke since I first became aware of it. You and me both, brother. You and me both. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/28 "2013-01-19T17:34:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The villainous little girls are also purplish-blue. Well, they’re just so ashy! :rolleyes: I never cared for the Proud Family. I preferred Static Shock, but even then I think Virgil’s mom may have been lighter than his dad. Eta: my dad is lighter than my mom. My older brother has his shade, my oldest brother and I are darker like my mom. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![TopTom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@TopTom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TopTom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/29 "2013-01-19T19:32:03Z")
Thank’s to everyone who have so far commented on this thread, I have read all comments and have found them highly informative. It appears to me that all people who have commented feel that shadism and colorism exists or at least had existed in the past. In particular I was interested in gigi’s comment “Also “intraracism”” a term I have not been familiar with. It seems to me that “intra racism” means racism within the same race, perhaps based on skin darkness. I guess this can be compared to “inter racism” which could mean racism on the part of a person in one race against those of another race. (I realize that some people feel that race is a social construct.) My current question is this, is shadism or colorism more intra racist or inter racist or about even? Also, is shadism and colorism current and is it increasing in intensity or decreasing? Further, RandMcnally wrote “This also comes up issues with hair: straight hair = better and such.” While I realize that there are many more serious problems regarding racism and other forms of discrimination, I am particularly interested in how shadism and issues about hair and even issues about facial features affect a person’s perception as to how attractive they are and how someone might feel about another in terms of attractiveness. For example, how important is the shade of one’s complexion to one’s feelings about oneself or others in terms of attractiveness? I feel that cultural norms and social beliefs have an important affect on who is seen as attractive. I know some people have touched on these things, but I would like to hear from more. Oh, I have also found the comments on people of mixed “races” or “ethnic groups” interesting. Tom, ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/30 "2013-01-19T23:33:35Z")
> [@TopTom](#): > > My current question is this, is shadism or colorism more intra racist or inter racist or about even? Sheet-wearing, cross-burning racists probably don’t give a flying fig what “shade” you are. A high yella nigger is still a nigger. Hell, maybe they even hate the high yella guy more because they assume he’s uppity or because he represents the dreaded mongrel. So when racism is at an extreme, colorism is moot. I think colorism exists at a low but non-zero level in most people, regardless of their racial backgrounds. See the bias in the film industry and advertising. Not only are light-skinned black women favored, but so are light-skinned black kids. I once read an article (can’t find it anymore) that talked about how casting calls for black children are often dominated by biracial children. They have a marketing edge in their “cross-over” appeal, true, but I also think people are less likely to be prejudiced against them. But I think you’re more likely to hear weird comments _inside_ the race than outside. It also depends on the culture, though. Indians, IMHO, seem to be much more vocal with their colorism. Black Americans may harbor some distorted ideas about skin and hair, but they are less likely to talk about them out in the open. UNLESS it’s to talk about love for dark skin and natural hair. This is actually encouraged. But you will never hear black Americans just sitting around, talking about how they want to be light skinned and have a whole bunch of cafe au lait children. They may think it, but they aren’t gonna admit to it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/31 "2013-01-19T23:49:00Z")
> [@hrhomer](#): > > As an atheist, the moniker “Bright” has made me puke since I first became aware of it. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > You and me both, brother. You and me both. Thirded. A very high wince factor there. ---
**Author:** ![TopTom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@TopTom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TopTom)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/32 "2013-01-20T16:45:25Z")
Monstro, I thank you for your comment, but I want to state that I am uncomfortable with one of the words you used. Tom, ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/33 "2013-01-20T17:48:36Z")
> [@TopTom](#): > > Monstro, I thank you for your comment, but I want to state that I am uncomfortable with one of the words you used. > > Tom, So what. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/34 "2013-01-20T17:52:43Z")
> [@TopTom](#): > > Monstro, I thank you for your comment, but I want to state that I am uncomfortable with one of the words you used. > > Tom, Good. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/35 "2013-01-20T19:09:07Z")
> [@TopTom](#): > > Monstro, I thank you for your comment, but I want to state that I am uncomfortable with one of the words you used. > > Tom, Cafe? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/36 "2013-01-20T21:31:55Z")
> [@TopTom](#): > > Monstro, I thank you for your comment, but I want to state that I am uncomfortable with one of the words you used. > > Tom, You know that **Monstro** is a black woman with a doctorate degree right? That just might be why some people aren’t taking your personal indignation against her word choices seriously. She picked them for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/37 "2013-01-20T23:51:25Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You know that **Monstro** is a black woman with a doctorate degree right? “Join Date: Jan 2013” - actually, he probably _doesn’t_. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/38 "2013-01-21T13:17:40Z")
I’ve been avoiding this thread because I didn’t know how to respond. I’m sorry I made you uncomfortable, **Tom**. “N\*\*ger” or the “n-word” is not outside of my repertoir when communicating on message boards, but neither is “nigger”. It’s not just another word for me, as a black woman, but I’m also a grown-ass adult, in discourse with (presumably) other grown-ass adults. If we can use other profanities without censorship, we should feel free to do the same with “nigger”. I don’t know if this clears up anything, but I didn’t want the thread to close on a sour note. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/39 "2013-01-21T16:15:43Z")
> [@hrhomer](#): > > [Paper Bag Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_bag_party) > > Didn’t you see that episode of “A Different World?” I thought that was “Fresh Prince”. ---
**Author:** ![TopTom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@TopTom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TopTom)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637/40 "2013-01-21T16:15:44Z")
Monstro, thank you for your latest comment. The fact that I was uncomfortable with one of the words you used does not mean that I am in favor of censorship or that I feel you did anything wrong. What I stated was just my feelings. I would also be uncomfortable with other words, but again I am not advocating censorship. Also I am glad that you don’t want the thread to close on a sour note. As I wrote I am pleased with the responses so far and I feel I have learned from them. I would like this thread to continue and I would like to hear from you again. To all, my interest in shadism and colorism was sparked by a Youtube video I saw. The name of the video is “Dark Girls Documentary Trailer.” Many readers may already have seen it, but for those who have not or are not sure it can be found at [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXG38QxXY-s&feature=player_embedded). I would like to hear people’s feelings and thoughts about the film. Tom, [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shadism-and-colorism-exist/647637.md?page=3)