# does Shia belief imply that the Mahdi will not have birth records? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 7, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846 "2010-07-07T13:13:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/1 "2010-07-07T13:13:16Z")
we are used to the practice of everybody having a documented date and place of birth. Do the Twelvers expect that when the true Mahdi comes out of the occultation he will not have credible birth records or people who saw him as a child? Here I note that the “minor occultation” described in Wikipedia seems to imply that the twelfth imam grew up to be an adult in the 9th century before going into “major occultation”. Or am I being too literal in interpretations here? Do the Twelvers have established expectations about how Mahdi appearance would work so as to fit their unique beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/2 "2010-07-07T13:26:33Z")
Jokes about Kenya in 3…2… ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/3 "2010-07-09T07:54:43Z")
Bumping because I am largely ignorant and this thread intrigues me. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/4 "2010-07-09T22:34:21Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Bumping because I am largely ignorant and this thread intrigues me. Well, you ain’t the only one in this Thread…:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/5 "2010-07-09T22:40:02Z")
Not all Shi’as are Twelver. I suppose there could be Twelvers that expect the Mahdi to be actually reborn, but I don’t know why that would be any more expected than a Christian would expect Jesus to return through a rebirth. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/6 "2010-07-09T23:13:02Z")
I’ve based my life on Shia LaBeouf’s teachings, but I have no idea what you guys are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/7 "2010-07-09T23:21:21Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > we are used to the practice of everybody having a documented date and place of birth. Do the Twelvers expect that when the true Mahdi comes out of the occultation he will not have credible birth records or people who saw him as a child? Don’t know anything about the Mahdi, but it is very possible for future world leaders to pop up “out of nowhere”. Behold: [Maitreya](http://www.share-international.org/maitreya/ma_main.htm)! from the [worldwide appearances](http://www.share-international.org/maitreya/Ma_wwa.htm) page: > [@](#): > > Since his sudden appearance ‘out of the blue’ in Nairobi, Kenya, on 11 June 1988, Maitreya has made many more miraculous appearances. In most cases, he has magnetized water in the vicinity before he appeared." ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/8 "2010-07-10T00:13:53Z")
So. The Messiah really did come from Kenya originally.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/9 "2010-07-10T05:23:17Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Well, you ain’t the only one in this Thread…:dubious: I was joined by 2 others before my bump, so I’m not sure whenceforth the dubious smiley. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/10 "2010-07-10T05:48:36Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I’ve based my life on Shia LaBeouf’s teachings, but I have no idea what you guys are talking about. There are a couple branches of Shia Islam that believe that the…basically, in their opinions, last good leader did not die, but instead went into hiding (occultation). One day, he will come back. The biggest group is the [Twelvers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver), called so because their favorite was the Twelfth Imam. There are also Seveners (the Ismailis) and Fivers (the Zaydis). When we talked about this in my History of Islam class back in college, I remember being baffled by the concept of occultation. I definitely don’t recall any kind of specific discussion of how people expected the imams to return. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/11 "2010-07-10T06:01:43Z")
First, an old lady will tell him to stick his hand into this box . . . ---
**Author:** ![alindallas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@alindallas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alindallas)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-shia-belief-imply-that-the-mahdi-will-not-have-birth-records/545846/12 "2010-07-10T06:25:54Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > First, an old lady will tell him to stick his hand into this box . . . lol !!!