# Does smoking save money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801 "2017-06-25T02:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Peabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Arthur\_Peabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arthur_Peabody)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/1 "2017-06-25T02:26:22Z")
Some have suggested that smoking saves money because it shortens the lives of smokers. I think I remember Mr Adams addressing this question in his column years ago, but a search of this site’s archives doesn’t turn it up. Have I misremembered? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/2 "2017-06-25T02:39:00Z")
Save money for whom and on what? Yes it probably saves expenditures on food, rent, gasoline, etc. but cigarettes themselves are quite expensive. Also medical treatments for lung cancer and heart disease are very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/3 "2017-06-25T02:43:52Z")
Back in the day, like 2000ish, Phillip Morris commissioned a study that reported the cost of treating a smoker was less than the cost of treating an old person. I don’t remember if Cecil did a column, but I’m sure it had a few threads here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/4 "2017-06-25T04:00:45Z")
Wait, the tobacco companies actually went so far as to claim “We’re the good guys, because we kill people before they get old and expensive”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/5 "2017-06-25T04:05:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, the tobacco companies actually went so far as to claim “We’re the good guys, because we kill people before they get old and expensive”? Perhaps they were concerned about facing some monetary liabilities ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/6 "2017-06-25T04:07:35Z")
There was ostensibly such a study in 2000 commissioned by Philip Morris in the Czech Republic. From the [abstract of the report](http://edition.cnn.com/2001/BUSINESS/07/16/czech.morris/study.doc) (Mild warning: 154K Word document): > [@](#): > > Public finance gained between 19,523 mil. CZK and 23,793 mil. CZK, with the realistic > estimate of 20,270 mil. CZK, from smoking-related taxes. Public finance saved between > 943 mil. CZK and 1,193 mil. CZK (realistic estimate: 1,193 mil. CZK) from reduced health-care costs, savings on pensions and housing costs for the elderly – all related to the early mortality of smokers. > > Among the positive effects, excise tax, VAT and health care cost savings due to early mortality are the most important. Increased health-care costs, absenteeism-related social costs, lost income tax related to early mortality, and fire-induced costs total between 13,849 mil. CZK and 16,605 mil. CZK, with the realistic estimate totalling 15,647 mil. CZK. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/7 "2017-06-25T04:23:40Z")
Well, I guess you don’t need to worry about socking away a whole lot for your 401k. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Peabody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Arthur\_Peabody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arthur_Peabody)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/8 "2017-06-25T05:01:36Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Save money for whom and on what? Saves money on medical expenses, sum of what the smoker pays and what everyone else pays in taxes and insurance. In other words, that the total expenditure for medical care in the US would go down if more Americans smoked. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/9 "2017-06-25T05:49:27Z")
I’m not sure what the point is. Anything that kills people off saves money, because they’re dead. Think of all the money we could save if everyone just slit their wrists before turning 40. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/10 "2017-06-25T07:29:26Z")
Was the study counting only the cost of death of X smokers vs the cost of X smokers remaining alive? Smoking kills but it also causes a lot of debilitating disease that is not usually allowed to get fatal. Those become societal hospitalisation, treatment and loss of productivity costs for the rest of each of those peoples’ lives. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/11 "2017-06-25T07:50:31Z")
It used to be the case in the UK, that smokers got better rates for life insurance. Not much compensation though when those cancer sticks cost around 50p each. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/12 "2017-06-25T09:49:05Z")
The New England Journal of Medicine says [yes](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506). [QUOTE=New England Journal of Medicine] Health care costs for smokers at a given age are as much as 40 percent higher than those for nonsmokers, but in a population in which no one smoked the costs would be 7 percent higher among men and 4 percent higher among women than the costs in the current mixed population of smokers and nonsmokers. If all smokers quit, health care costs would be lower at first, but after 15 years they would become higher than at present. In the long term, complete smoking cessation would produce a net increase in health care costs, but it could still be seen as economically favorable under reasonable assumptions of discount rate and evaluation period. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/13 "2017-06-25T10:48:51Z")
All of those expensive sick people would be past retirement age, so some of the slack would pick up with fewer work days lost. Also, children of smokers have higher rates of asthma and more severe upper respiratory ailments (infections are more common, more severe, and last longer, presumably because their mucous membranes are constantly irritated and therefore open to infection). One would expect to see a decline in the number of cases of childhood asthma, and the severity of the remaining cases. That might lead to a net gain in health expenditures. Smoking is also a cause of house fires. I don’t know if it’s a leading cause, though. We’d see a decrease in those. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/14 "2017-06-25T11:44:09Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > The New England Journal of Medicine says [yes](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506). You can analyse the data to come up with any answer you want. People would theoretically live longer and cost more, but I suspect that this is based on the life expectancy data that sees us all living for longer and longer. I think that this is flawed because today’s old people were children at a time when diets were generally healthier; in the UK especially, most of the things that are “bad” for you were on ration 70 years ago: sweets, butter, sugar, red meat - all rationed. They also had no TV and parents worried less about “stranger danger”; so they played outside a lot more. With obesity on the rise; I can easily see life expectancy falling rather than increasing - the problem is that there will be ever more hugely expensive treatments for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/15 "2017-06-25T12:34:11Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > You can analyse the data to come up with any answer you want. (snip) No, you can’t. That’s not what data is. ---
**Author:** ![steepone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@steepone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steepone)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/16 "2017-06-25T13:42:47Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > The New England Journal of Medicine says [yes](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506). Sir Humphrey agrees > [@](#): > > Jim Hacker: It says here, smoking related diseases cost the National Health Service £165 million a year. > > Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes but we’ve been in to that, it has been shown that if those extra 100,000 people had lived to a ripe old age, it would have cost us even more in pensions and social security than it did in medical treatment. So, financially speaking it’s unquestionably better that they continue to die at their present rate. > > Jim Hacker: We’re talking of 100,000 deaths a year. > > Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, but cigarette taxes pay for a third of the cost of the National Health service. We’re saving many more lives than we otherwise could, because of those smokers who voluntary lay down their lives for their friends. Smokers are national benefactors. > > Jim Hacker: So long as they live. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/17 "2017-06-25T14:27:32Z")
This is yet another, albeit amusing, proof that the single most insidious, destructive, and pervasive lie infecting our era, is the pretense that calculating cost-benefit ratios isn’t ENTIRELY political. It always is. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/18 "2017-06-25T14:39:25Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I’m not sure what the point is. Anything that kills people off saves money, because they’re dead. Well, yeah. We should probably applaud the “opioid epidemic” because lifetime medical costs are vastly lower for young people who die of ODs. :dubious: Anyway, lots and lots of elderly people succumb to prolonged battles with smoking-related ailments, which cost plenty of $$$ to treat. I see it virtually every day in my practice. It’s not like smokers all drop dead quickly by their 50s.\* \*Live fast, die in late middle age or older, leave a ravaged corpse. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/19 "2017-06-25T15:39:05Z")
An analysis focusing on healthcare costs will inherently tend to favor factors that lead to short lives. This does not mean that short lives are inherently a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801/20 "2017-06-25T17:21:42Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > An analysis focusing on healthcare costs will inherently tend to favor factors that lead to short lives. This does not mean that short lives are inherently a good thing. Even more when you factor in other social costs that typically go up with longer life, like Social Security in the US. It doesn’t mean it’s a good thing but it is directly relevant to discussions when we discuss possible government intervention. The notion that we need to compel people (or strongly encourage people through high taxes) to do things that are healthier/safer because it costs the rest of us money is pretty common in debates. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-smoking-save-money/789801.md?page=2)