# Does Space exist if there's nothing in it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 10, 2005, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835 "2005-07-10T09:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835/21 "2005-07-19T11:06:46Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > **aldiboronti** : **Alessan** hit on the important aspect of space as you have defined it: It only exists as the distance between objects. Thus, if you have one object or zero objects space does not exist. I disagree; space would still exist as the set of positions that the object, _could occupy_. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835/22 "2005-07-19T16:04:39Z")
Could a single object in otherwise empty space have acceleration? I see that it couldn’t have velocity since there is nothing against which relative velocity could be measures, But if it was under acceleration (or under the action of a force which is I believe the same thing) then could that force be hypothetically measured or have effect uppon the lone object? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835/23 "2005-07-19T16:49:58Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > If GR is accurate, spacetime obviously is a thing in and of itself. If the spacetime manifold is an epiphenomenon of some other model (as in various quantum gravity theories) then _those_ are things in and of themselves. The stage has joined the actors irrevocably. Yes, modern scientific developments have basically answered this one, but I still think the discussion prior to Einstein is pretty interesting from a historical perspective. ---
**Author:** ![odaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e0b2c6/32.png) [@odaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/odaran)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835/24 "2005-07-20T00:27:36Z")
In my opinion, IANA physist, The fact that the event (particle, movement of a singel object, etc…) was observed at all would qualify it as measureable. For something to be observed, there would then be two things in the “space” the object in question and the observer, otherwise how could it be observed. Right there would give you distance. Point A to Point B (observer to object). There would also then be time. The length of the observer observing the object. If there is no observer, then how could you prove there was an object in the first place? Sorry about grammer and spelling. I am nearing the end of my shift and getting very tired. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835/25 "2005-07-20T01:33:25Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Could you actually have a space with nothing in it? Even given zero energy, doesn’t the uncertainty principle mandate flucuations around the zero point that would give rise to virtual particles and potential real ones? > And if you could appear in such a space, then by definition it has dimensions as well as time. WAG The Zero Point. Isn’t that where Dr. Tom Beardem gets zero point energy? Or taps into the free energy of the vacuum to solve the world’s energy deficit? 🙂 Never mind. Just couldn’t resist adding a bit of ? humor ? I’ll leave and not be back here. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835/26 "2005-07-20T21:06:55Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Yes, modern scientific developments have basically answered this one, but I still think the discussion prior to Einstein is pretty interesting from a historical perspective. Interesting, possibly. IMHO, such discussion should be set out as tangential to the OP, which didn’t ask what people _thought_ about whether space existed, but whether or not it _does_ exist without “anything” in it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-space-exist-if-theres-nothing-in-it/311835.md?page=1)