# Does Spicy equals Hot in all European languages ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705 "2014-12-08T23:22:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/21 "2014-12-09T10:07:06Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Spiced? As in “spiced wine” aka mulled wine… a variety of spices but unlikely to burn… unless consumed too quickly. 🙂 > > There are several terms I might use for food per the examples **am77494** suggested… I might call saffron rice “aromatic”,. Ah yes, that’d do it for most scenarios I think. mmmmmmm, mulled wine. I’m off on a two-week skiing holiday to Austria over xmas and new year so gluhwein will be forming a high percentage of my calorie intake…hurrah! ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/22 "2014-12-09T12:48:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > UK here, yes if something was marked as “spicy” I’d expect it to be chili hot. > > I’m not sure we have a word that specifically relates to something with a lot of non-hot spices in it. > We might use spicy in those cases but I suspect it would confuse more than it clarifies. I disagree with that to some extent: We eat out in Indian restaurants and ‘hot’ dishes as in vindaloo or Madras are usually described as such. ‘Spicy’ dishes may still be hot, but nowhere near as ‘hot’ as that. My wife does not like hot curries but she does like a spicy flavour. In a strange restaurant, we always ask. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/23 "2014-12-09T15:59:13Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I believe “picante” means “sharp” Nope, as **Chronos** said, it’s spicy-hot; peppery and specially capsaiciny (other kinds of spicy would not be _picante_ but _fuerte_, “strong”). The closest relationship between that and the rest of your words is through the multiple meanings of the verb _picar_, including “to pierce” (which is the one I think you were thinking of) and “to sting”. _Picante_ food is food that “stings your mouth”. (RAE lists 57 meanings for [picar](http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=picar) before starting on phrases, no way I was translating them all when only a few were relevant) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/24 "2014-12-09T16:27:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’ll accept that some of these flavors are of a common category of flavors—which is why we talk about them together—but I reject that they are “fundamentally the same” in terms of the eating experience. You’re really talking about your personal subjective experience, which rather falls out of GQ territory. The sensation of hotness generated by these substances is fundamentally the same in a scientific sense, which is what I am addressing. > [@](#): > > To call both those flavors with the same word that we use for simple high temperatures reflects a very anemic linguistic inventory in our language in this category of sensations. It’s simply pathetic. We have been wise enough to adopt “umami” for a flavor sensation that we didn’t have a word for. It’s time to do the same for chilis and horseradish (and alliums, perhaps). It’s fine if you want to suggest coining additional words for finer grades of description, but “hot” is still perfectly appropriate to describe a common sensation generated by these compounds. Sweet, bitter, and sour also cover commonalities of sensation produced by particular foods. There is nothing wrong with using them just because specific foods have more complex tastes. Out of curiosity, is there a specific word in Indian languages for the hotness produced by black pepper? If not, that would be very odd, since black pepper was used in Indian cooking far longer than Capsicum peppers, which are of New World origin and thus didn’t enter Indian cuisine until after 1492. What is the origin of the word for capsicum hotness? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/25 "2014-12-09T16:39:58Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > In German, hot in the sense of temperature is ‘heiß’, and in the sense of taste, it’s ‘scharf’, which literally translates to ‘sharp’, as in knives. ‘Spicy’ would be ‘würzig’. This is correct. And I do remember an instance when this caused some confusion/discomfort in a restaurant when one member of our party (also a native German speaker) didn’t fully understand the warning when she was told that a particular dish was “hot”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/26 "2014-12-09T16:45:38Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > 1\> Say I add a few threads of Saffron (a [spice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron)) to rice during cooking it. Will the cooked rice be spicy or hot or both per your definition ? As far as I know, saffron does not affect any of the heat receptors, so it would not be hot. > [@](#): > > 2\> what if I added a few Cloves (a [spice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clove)) with the Saffron in 1 - is it now spicy or hot or both ? Cloves contain eugenol, which can both activate and desensitize TRPV1. They might be considered hot to some extent. > [@](#): > > 3\> What if I added a few Cloves, few peppercorns with the few threads of Saffron in 1. Is it now hot ? Peppercorns contain piperine, which activates TRPV1. Black pepper is hot, but not as hot as capsaicin. “Spicy” has a variety of meanings. From Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > spicy adjective \ˈspī-sē\ > > of food : flavored with or containing strong spices and especially ones that cause a burning feeling in your mouth > > : exciting and somewhat shocking > spic·i·er spic·i·est > > Full Definition of SPICY > > 1: having the quality, flavor, or fragrance of spice > 2: producing or abounding in spices > 3: lively, spirited > 4: piquant, racy; especially : somewhat scandalous or salacious \ While “spicy” technically means containing any spice, its connotation generally implies strong or hot spices. Saffron is a very mild spice, and while saffron rice might in a broad sense be spicy most people would not use the word to refer to it. As the definition indicates, “spicy” generally applies to foods that generate the feeling of hotness. A dish containing cloves might be considered spicy; one containing lots of black pepper almost certainly would. More [here](http://biologicalexceptions.blogspot.com/2014/04/its-not-just-chili-peppers-that-are-hot.html) on the chemical basis of the sensation of hotness, and which compounds produce it. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/27 "2014-12-09T16:59:55Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Ditto NZ, agreed. > > Spiced? As in “spiced wine” aka mulled wine… a variety of spices but unlikely to burn… unless consumed too quickly. 🙂 > > There are several terms I might use for food per the examples **am77494** suggested… I might call saffron rice “aromatic”, with the cloves perhaps “piquant”… once the peppercorns are in there “spicy” does seem appropriate. This was going to be my response as well- I think of “spicy” as capsaicin/piperin induced heat, “spiced” as intensely flavored with non-heat inducing spices. The limitation in my language is apparent at mustard/horseradish/wasabi- I usually just use “horseradishy” to describe the intense kick-you-in-the-sinus feeling that disappears after a short time, unlike the lingering burn of peppers. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/28 "2014-12-09T17:10:08Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > As an American, when I hear “spicy” I think “with lots of spices” and not necessarily hot ones. As an American, I’ve given up on trying to use “spicy” to mean “well spiced” or “with lots of spices,” since that doesn’t seem to be the way people generally use it. It almost always means, in my experience, either chile pepper hot, peppercorn hot, mustard hot, or horseradish hot. Possibly ginger hot, too–in other words, the type of spice that feels like an irritant, and that is often described as “hot.” I’ve never heard anyone describe something like, say, generously spiced fruit cake as being “spicy.” Or a Cincinnati chili. It’s got lots of spices, but if someone asked me if it was “spicy,” I would assume they are asking about whether it’s “hot,” not whether it has a lot of spices in it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/29 "2014-12-09T17:12:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You’re really talking about your personal subjective experience, which rather falls out of GQ territory. The sensation of hotness generated by these substances is fundamentally the same in a scientific sense, which is what I am addressing. You are narrowing the scope of taste and flavor science to a level this renders it useless to describe human experience. It’s like saying that I’m being unreasonably unscientific by insisting on using the word “pink” because scientifically speaking, the color pink doesn’t exist. [quoyr]Out of curiosity, is there a specific word in Indian languages for the hotness produced by black pepper? [/quote] I don’t know of one and I have not encountered it being described with the same word as that for chili hot either. But come to think of it, black pepper as used in Indian cuisine—at least as I have experienced—is not used in a way that marks the end product with the hotness sensation. Black pepper is used as a spice/flavoring rather than got its piquancy. (As an aside, In Bengali cuisine, one is not supposed to use chilis and black pepper in the same dish. They are seen as incompatible.) > [@](#): > > If not, that would be very odd, since black pepper was used in Indian cooking far longer than Capsicum peppers, which are of New World origin and thus didn’t enter Indian cuisine until after 1492. I think you’ll find that a lot of what we consider as essential to Indian cuisine goes no further back than Vasco da Gama. I don’t think we as modern people would recognize pre-1498 Indian cuisine. Extensive trade with Europe transformed both societies. > [@](#): > > What is the origin of the word for capsicum hotness? No idea. But here are the Bengali words— Gorom — temperature hot Jhal — chili hot Jhãjh — mustard hot Moshla — spices ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/30 "2014-12-09T17:38:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You’re really talking about your personal subjective experience, which rather falls out of GQ territory. The sensation of hotness generated by these substances is fundamentally the same in a scientific sense, which is what I am addressing. The OP is about how people describe the sensations they experience. Subjectivity is pretty near the heart of the matter. > [@](#): > > It’s fine if you want to suggest coining additional words for finer grades of description, but “hot” is still perfectly appropriate to describe a common sensation generated by these compounds. I agree. I don’t think anyone has a problem with the _general_ applicability of “hot” in this sense–the issue is whether “spicy” (and equivalents in other languages) does or should mean anything different. > [@am77494](#): > > one of my pet peeves is the use of Spicy to mean Hot (as in chilli pepper hot) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/31 "2014-12-09T17:40:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You are narrowing the scope of taste and flavor science to a level this renders it useless to describe human experience. It’s like saying that I’m being unreasonably unscientific by insisting on using the word “pink” because scientifically speaking, the color pink doesn’t exist. “Pink” can be described in scientific terms. But I am not “narrowing the scope of taste and flavor science” in the least by recognizing that there is a basic commonality of sensation between the various “hot” spices. There is nothing wrong with using the word “sweet” to describe strawberries, honey, and cookies, all because they affect the same taste receptors, even if the overall taste sensation is different. Just because a word describes a general sensation doesn’t mean it’s not useful. “Hot” does convey useful information about food, since many people either like or dislike food on the basis of this sensation, regardless of whether it is produced by capsaicin or piperine or allyl isothiocyanate, and regardless of what other flavors may be present. If you wish to describe more specific sensations, you can use other words. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/32 "2014-12-09T17:47:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > UK here, yes if something was marked as “spicy” I’d expect it to be chili hot. > > I’m not sure we have a word that specifically relates to something with a lot of non-hot spices in it. > We might use spicy in those cases but I suspect it would confuse more than it clarifies. I would say “aromatic” for something that had a lot of spices in it but wasn’t “hot”. “Spiced” also fits the bill, e.g. hot-cross buns can be described as “spiced”. And they are hot, too, but not “hot”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/33 "2014-12-09T19:59:03Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The OP is about how people describe the sensations they experience. Subjectivity is pretty near the heart of the matter. However, there is an objective reason why virtually everyone senses particular chemicals as providing the same sensation as heat: they affect the same receptors. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/34 "2014-12-09T20:43:51Z")
Norwegian: Spicy (has lots of spices) - krydret (basically the same word, spices - krydder) hot - sterk or sterkt krydret (strong, or strongly spiced) ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/35 "2014-12-09T20:55:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > However, there is an objective reason why virtually everyone senses particular chemicals as providing the same sensation as heat: they affect the same receptors. Sure. That’s not all that’s going on, though, nor generally the most important thing; the right hot-spice for a dish isn’t just a matter of [heat ratings](http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/08/garden/rating-hot-peppers-mouth-vs-computer.html). ---
**Author:** ![Moris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moris/32/2846_2.png) [@Moris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moris)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/36 "2014-12-09T21:58:34Z")
In Croatian/Serbian, the word for spicy/hot is “ljuto”, which actually means “angry”. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/37 "2014-12-10T00:04:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > While “spicy” technically means containing any spice, its connotation generally implies strong or hot spices. Yes, my Grandfather (who had lived os quite a lot) was quite disappointed when he was introduced to Tex/Mex food. He was hoping for something with strong flavours, but all he got was something “hot”. I dunno if there are separate words for it, but the food my inlaws eat has very strong flavours, and is not very “hot”. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/38 "2014-12-10T01:34:39Z")
Gardens Of Taxco, a popular Mexican restaurant in West Hollywood, is (was?) famous for not having printed menus; instead the jovial owner comes to your table and tells you the choices verbally. Depending on what’s available, at least a few dishes would invariably be described as "spicy. Not _hot_ but **spicy.**. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/39 "2014-12-10T02:08:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > However, there is an objective reason why virtually everyone senses particular chemicals as providing the same sensation as heat: they affect the same receptors. I do not believe I have ever confused a high temperature soup with one that contains an inordinate amount of capsaicin. I would be interested in whether any other human regularly does so. Assuming that confusion is rare, I would conclude that another word in English might be useful. That way, the speaker could verbally distinguish high temperature from chemically induced TRPV1 stimulation. English has a gargantuan vocabulary; I’m surprised we haven’t gotten this sorted out yet. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Indian languages have completely different words for (1) temperature hot, (2) chili/capsaicin hot, and (3) mustard/horseradish/wasabi hot. What are they? Maybe we could import some of these. Hm. Boiling-hot vs. spicy-hot? ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705/40 "2014-12-10T06:34:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > “Pink” can be described in scientific terms. But still, perception is very contextual. The same physical stimulus, delivered in a different context, can induce different sensations, and it’s those sensations debate on taste is concerned with. Consider the green and blue spirals in [this picture](http://www.psy.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/Monspiral.gif): they’re very clearly distinct, differentiable colors. However, as you can see [here](http://linesandcolors.com/images/2009-06/blue_green_450.jpg), in fact, as regards RGB values etc., they’re the same. So reducing the sensation to a stimulus in isolation, i.e. the RGB values and hence, the reaction of color-sensitive cells in the eye, fails to capture the actual color sensation; for that, you have to include what other colors are perceived simultaneously, and adjacently. Likewise, in order to describe taste, reducing to merely the response of some pain receptor also may fail to capture the whole experience, since that activation may be part of quite distinct experiences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-spicy-equals-hot-in-all-european-languages/706705.md?page=3)