# Does Superman need fixing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092 "2012-08-01T19:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/21 "2012-08-01T22:24:29Z")
Just please don’t have him brood. We already have enoough tortured heroes to go around. I’d like to see him age. What happens to Superman at fifty…at sixty…at seventy…? He’s got to start losing it, with his body slowly giving in to decay just like everyone else. It’s probably already been done, but perhaps it could still be kind of interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/22 "2012-08-01T22:29:18Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > This is one of the oldest discussions in the world. My answer is, and has always been : No, he doesn’t need fixing. Not every character needs to interest every person, and personally, I find Superman more interesting than Marvel’s crop of whiny ‘everymen’. This sums up my feelings perfectly. Superman is not perfect because he can’t be everywhere at once. He’s the superhero Atlas: his powers are so great that he essentially carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, and yet he can’t fix everything. And then what happens when he forms attachments like any other functioning human? How does he reconcile duty with personal loyalty? These are interesting questions, IMHO, especially with a character who is both inherently good and theoretically able to fix almost any problem. Rather than “fix” the character, put him in situations where his ideals and his humanity come into conflict. The '78 movie managed it–it’s not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/23 "2012-08-01T22:30:40Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > He’s got to start losing it, with his body slowly giving in to decay just like everyone else. It’s probably already been done, but perhaps it could still be kind of interesting. OOOO! Early Onset Alzheimer! Physically he’s still got all of the strength and speed (generally) but he can’t remember where he was flying off to. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/24 "2012-08-01T22:30:48Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I’d like to see him age. What happens to Superman at fifty…at sixty…at seventy…? Then you might like **Kingdom Come** if you haven’t read it already. > **[Kingdom Come (comics)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Come_(comics))** > > Kingdom Come is a four-issue comic book miniseries published in 1996 by DC Comics under their Elseworlds imprint. It was written by Mark Waid and painted in gouache by Alex Ross, who also developed the concept from an original idea. > The story is set in an alternate future of the DC Universe. The new generation of heroes have lost their moral compass, becoming as reckless and violent as the villains they fight. The previous regime of heroes—the Justice League—returns under dire circumstances,... Supes in older and has retired from heroe-ing and lives on his farm. [http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18474/363478-196897-kingdom-come-superma\_super.JPG](http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18474/363478-196897-kingdom-come-superma_super.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/25 "2012-08-01T22:37:12Z")
ehh, Let him be boring. He was designed for the tastes of Ten year olds, and is just great 10 year olds fantasy of being awesome at everything.If you want complexity make up some new character. Leave Superman alone, he doesn’t need fixing. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/26 "2012-08-01T23:15:08Z")
If you don’t like him, best stick with Mr. Incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/27 "2012-08-01T23:22:29Z")
Superman has always been my favorite superhero. I didn’t read the comics. When I was it a kid it was Adam West vs. Christopher Reeve. They later made Batman darker/edgier. I almost think Nolan/Bale is too dark. My favorite Batman is Burton/Keaton. There isn’t a good way to make Supes darker or edgier without ruining him. I like Dean Cain and Smallville’s take on Supes too. Superman Returns was a failure though. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/28 "2012-08-01T23:32:08Z")
This is what I liked about Smallville: They gave him various reasons to not use all his powers, all the time: a fear of heights kept him from flying, not wanting to stand out kept him from using them most of the time he was in high school, he’s too much of a boy scout to use his X-ray vision anywhere _near_ as much as any red-blooded American male would… and, every single cubic yard of dirt within 100 miles of Smallville seems to have kryptonite in it. Except for his farm… not really sure how that worked out. Plus, they made a definite distinction between people with kryptonite-spawned powers (Powerful in their own niche, but not as powerful as Clark), and people who had super powers for some other reason (could usually kick his ass: The Flash was faster, Aquaman was tougher in the water, anybody using magic could make him their own private play toy…). ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/29 "2012-08-01T23:42:39Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > Superman has always been my favorite superhero. I didn’t read the comics. When I was it a kid it was Adam West vs. Christopher Reeve. They later made Batman darker/edgier. I almost think Nolan/Bale is too dark. My favorite Batman is Burton/Keaton. There isn’t a good way to make Supes darker or edgier without ruining him. I like Dean Cain and Smallville’s take on Supes too. Superman Returns was a failure though. I agree with all of this (except I loved _Superman Returns_–need to see it again, though). It’s the reason I hated the _Man of Steel_ trailer–it’s all that “gritty realism” bullshit that was effective when used sparingly, but now is like fucking Autotune. Superman is bright, colourful and optimistic. Can’t we have one thing left that isn’t dark and gritty? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/30 "2012-08-01T23:50:51Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > If you want complexity make up some new character. Leave Superman alone, he doesn’t need fixing. This. “Fixing” Superman by making him not Superman is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/31 "2012-08-01T23:58:29Z")
Confession: I haven’t seen Superman Returns. But from the previews and clips I have seen, it appeared as though Routh was doing an impression of Reeve. Rosenbaum has ruined anybody else doing Lex Luthor in the future for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/32 "2012-08-01T23:58:32Z")
Superman far more than any other superhero that I can think of could be saving lives almost 24/7. Many lives every hour, surely. In the end he’s pretty lazy. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/33 "2012-08-01T23:58:56Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > he couldn’t, without killing her. Sure, he can–he’s super-gentle. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/34 "2012-08-02T00:05:44Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > Confession: I haven’t seen Superman Returns. But from the previews and clips I have seen, it appeared as though Routh was doing an impression of Reeve. Rosenbaum has ruined anybody else doing Lex Luthor in the future for me. I’m one of the few people who liked _Returns_, so take this opinion with a grain of salt. _Returns_ is essentially a sequel to Donner’s intended _Superman II_, with Donner himself as executive producer. Routh is channelling Reeve’s Superman because it’s a continuation of Donner’s continuity. It really is the _Superman III_ we should have gotten in '83. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/35 "2012-08-02T00:22:04Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > _Returns_ is essentially a sequel to Donner’s intended _Superman II_, with Donner himself as executive producer. Routh is channelling Reeve’s Superman because it’s a continuation of Donner’s continuity. It really is the _Superman III_ we should have gotten in '83. _“Good afternoon, Mister President. Sorry I’ve been away so long; I won’t let you down again. Well, unless you need me next week. In fact, the rest of the month is no good for me. But **next** month – no, to be honest, the rest of the year is pretty much out, and next year isn’t looking any better. But at some point, maybe the better part of a decade from now, I’ll be here, I guess.”_ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/36 "2012-08-02T00:22:24Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Superman is not perfect because he can’t be everywhere at once. He’s the superhero Atlas: his powers are so great that he essentially carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, and yet he can’t fix everything. And then what happens when he forms attachments like any other functioning human? How does he reconcile duty with personal loyalty? He’s just[doing it wrong](http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2305#comic). ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/37 "2012-08-02T00:31:47Z")
It’s tough because DC defines him as the best at everything. So after someone like Elliot S! Maggin gives him a personality, there’s a temptation for later writers to contradict that so their personal idea of an ultimate-powered hero’s personality can be Superman. Married? Let’s make him single! Likes beef bourguignon? No! He should be a vegetarian! Confident? Let’s give him doubt! Unsure of himself? Make him too super to ever be like that! So, yeah… > [@CandidGamera](#): > > No, he doesn’t need fixing. Not every character needs to interest every person[…] > > As for being predictable - every well-written, sane comic character is. It’s called consistency. Fair enough. If you can’t think of a good Superman story that’s not just a retread of someone else’s story, write some other character. This is why it’s good that there are other Superman-like characters out there, that aren’t Superman. > [@temp\_user](#): > > I think Superman should go back to his first-issue roots and be seriously depowered, and the emphasis put not on his Super-ness, but on his Formidable-ness, his doggedness. This would include cutting back his strength considerably - he could perhaps lift a car, stopping a train would be taxing as hell, cut out flying and go back to his super leaps, cut out the optic powers like heat vision, cut down the invulnerability so cracking open cement with his skull can daze him or a large enough shell could penetrate his skin, cut down the superspeed so that he only runs about 100mph, not Flash fast. Then, it would be interesting to see a villain like Metallo ragdoll Superman all over Metropolis, but have Superman still come out on top. Or not even be the strongest in the Justice League anymore, but still respected among his peers for his formidable-ness. This is a decent idea on its face. In fact, Clark’s been “toned down” a little bit a couple of times. But some people want the ultimate power hero, so there’s a push and pull. > [@Biotop](#): > > I’d like to see him age. What happens to Superman at fifty…at sixty…at seventy…? I like the idea of Superman aging, and passing on the mantle to successors. But again, for some people, that doesn’t fit their idea of the concept somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/38 "2012-08-02T00:34:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > _“Good afternoon, Mister President. Sorry I’ve been away so long; I won’t let you down again. Well, unless you need me next week. In fact, the rest of the month is no good for me. But **next** month – no, to be honest, the rest of the year is pretty much out, and next year isn’t looking any better. But at some point, maybe the better part of a decade from now, I’ll be here, I guess.”_ > > 😉 Yeah, I agree with that criticism. But still, I respect the attempt to make a sequel to a film 25 years old with a messy history all its own. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/39 "2012-08-02T00:57:14Z")
My problem with all these superheroes is that they’re always tackling the “easy” stuff. Oh, a train is going off the rails, or a woman is falling out of a building! I’d like to see them tackle the hard stuff - a civil war in the Sudan, or schoolgirls getting poisoned in Afghanistan, or children soldiers in the DRC, or political prisoners in China. Show us what you can do there! ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092/40 "2012-08-02T01:17:07Z")
We could always have him battle [Black Zero](http://thenostalgialeague.com/cr/forgotten-superman.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-superman-need-fixing/630092.md?page=3)