# Does Swiss German truly lack a written form? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467 "2008-06-02T13:39:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/1 "2008-06-02T13:39:43Z")
The mother of a Swiss German family I know told me that Swiss German has no written form, that it is only spoken. By Swiss German, I am speaking of the Germanic dialect spoken in Switzerland: [Swiss German - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German) Wikipedia is unclear on this point. It says that the Swiss in the German-speaking cantons in Switzerland speak their dialect, but use standard high German in letters and in documents, etc. But is that just a convention? Could one really **not** write down what’s being spoken on an everyday basis? I find that hard to believe, but someone here can enlighten me, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![ignis\_glaciesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ignis\_glaciesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignis_glaciesque)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/2 "2008-06-02T14:51:25Z")
It has a written form. It may not be standardized, but it’s a writing system. It’s just not used as frequently as Hochdeutsch in writing; I can’t think of a context where you’d be more likely to see Schwyzerdüütsch than Hochdeutsch. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/3 "2008-06-02T15:00:09Z")
Well, here’s a list of Asterix comics published in Swiss-German, mostly in Baernduetsch, which is the dialect spoken in Bern. > **[asterix-international.de](http://www.asterix-international.de/asterix/languages/swiss.shtml)** > > This domain may be for sale! And here’s the Swiss German edition of The Little Prince: > **[Der Chly Prinz: Bärndütsch vom Lorenz Pauli : Saint-Exupéry, Antoine de,...](https://www.amazon.de/Chly-Prinz-B%C3%A4rnd%C3%BCtsch-Lorenz-Pauli/dp/3906786285)** > > Der Chly Prinz: Bärndütsch vom Lorenz Pauli | Saint-Exupéry, Antoine de, Saint-Exupéry, Antoine de, Pauli, Lorenz | ISBN: 9783906786285 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/4 "2008-06-02T15:03:50Z")
I have never seen a text written in Swiss German, except for a few isolated words (such as “Grüezi”, a dialectal Swiss greeting which has become a stereotype for Germans trying to imitate Swiss German). I can imagine Swiss authors writing in dialect simply for the sake of writing in dialect; there’s dialectal literature in many German-speaking regions, but it doesn’t have any major significance. Apart from that, I have never heard of a specifically Swiss way of writing. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/5 "2008-06-02T15:06:29Z")
This is a difference to [Luxembourgish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourgish_language), btw, which for a long time was regarded as a German dialect. In the 19th century, it developed an own system of writing, and nowadays it’s considered a language in its own right. It is still very close to German, especially to some dialects in the West of Germany, and it’s widely intelligible to native speakers of German. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/6 "2008-06-02T15:07:14Z")
I am not Swiss but what I understand from my contact with relatives and business contacts in Switzerland: - Swiss written matter in German is in the Swiss form of High German, which differs from German High German in a lot of vocabulary to the extent that as a German one is often baffled (e.g. the text “Stossen” on an entrance door would be understood by th Swiss as “push” but by Germans as “push violently”). It is understandable to Germans with an occasional peek at a glossary. Familiarity with French and with obsolete usages of German German helps. - Swiss spoken German (Schweizerdeutsch) is virtually incomprehensible to people speaking standard German. - The Swiss from the French and Italian speaking cantons learn Swiss High German at school in “German” class but are better than Germans at understanding spoken _Schweizerdeutsch_. - Spoken Swiss German can be written down phonetically but usually isn’t except when the audience is very much local or when a diallectological interest is involved. As an example: The following is a news text whose spoken form is cited in the German-language Wikipedia article on Schweizerdeutsch. I have inferred the Swiss High German text. _Text printed out for newsreader to read:_ **Man befürchtet, daß die Zahl der Verletzten, die in Krankenhäuser eingeliefert wurden, noch beträchtlich ansteigen könnte.** _What the newsreader says:_ **Me befürchtet, das d Zaal der Verletzte, die i Chrankchehüser ygliferet worde sy, no beträchtlech aaschtyge chönnt** _English translation:_ **It is feared that the number of injured transported to hospitals could still rise significantly.** ---
**Author:** ![Anaglyph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anaglyph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaglyph)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/7 "2008-06-02T15:15:42Z")
Well, some of us use a phonetic rendition of the local dialect in SMS and E-mail. But we refer to the dialect as “Mundart”, the spoken language, and to high german as “Schriftsprache”, the written language. Of course, when we make the effort of talkin in high german to german people, they think they understand our dialect. When we really talk in our dialect, they don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Anaglyph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anaglyph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaglyph)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/8 "2008-06-02T15:21:20Z")
As an example: The following is a news text whose spoken form is cited in the German-language Wikipedia article on Schweizerdeutsch. I have inferred the Swiss High German text. _Text printed out for newsreader to read:_ **Man befürchtet, daß die Zahl der Verletzten, die in Krankenhäuser eingeliefert wurden, noch beträchtlich ansteigen könnte.** _What the newsreader says:_ **Me befürchtet, das d Zaal der Verletzte, die i Chrankchehüser ygliferet worde sy, no beträchtlech aaschtyge chönnt** _English translation:_ **It is feared that the number of injured transported to hospitals could still rise significantly.** [/QUOTE] Actually, the second text is clearly translated from high German. in Zürichdeutsch (the dialect of the Zürich, i would rather say: Mer hät Angscht, es chönted no vil meh Verletzti i’d Chrankehüser iigliferet werde. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/9 "2008-06-02T15:34:27Z")
So, one **can** write down the Swiss German dialect, but it’s done very rarely and there is not a standardized spelling. Is that an accurate summation of the responses so far? (BTW, thanks, everyone!) ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/10 "2008-06-02T15:34:30Z")
My now deceased neighbor immigrated here around 1920 and whatever region he was from, he said that they wrote in German because the dialect they spoke had no written component. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/11 "2008-06-02T16:05:53Z")
[QUOTE=Spiff] So, one **can** write down the Swiss German dialect, but it’s done very rarely and there is not a standardized spelling. Is that an accurate summation of the responses so far? (BTW, thanks, everyone!) [/QUOTE] Yes. That’s basically what “no written form” means. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/12 "2008-06-02T16:45:17Z")
Well, call me a literalist (must be my Germanic background), but “no written form” strictly means “no written form” and not that you can actually write it down sometimes, standardized or not. I guess my OP was really trying to pin down what “no written form” actually meant in the real world. Is it that not a single Swiss German word has ever been committed to paper (a strict definition)? Or is it that Swiss German is mostly a spoken language, but people can and do write down some words sometimes if pressed (a looser definition)? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/13 "2008-06-02T20:33:30Z")
There is, however, one visible distinction between the way German is written in Switzerland and the way it’s written elsewhere: The Swiss don’t use the ß letter. ß developed as a ligature of an old-style s (the form of s resembling an f; it also appears in the Declaration of Independence) and a z. It’s spoken as an unvoiced s, but it can also make the preceding vowel longer. There was an orthography reform in Germany a few years ago where ß was replaced by ss in many instances. The Swiss don’t use it altogether, writing ss instead every time. It’s a clear indicator of Swiss texts. Other than that, I don’t know of any distinctly Swiss writing styles. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-swiss-german-truly-lack-a-written-form/451467/14 "2008-06-02T22:09:09Z")
[QUOTE=Spiff] Well, call me a literalist (must be my Germanic background), but “no written form” strictly means “no written form” and not that you can actually write it down sometimes, standardized or not. [/QUOTE] By that definition, every language has a written form: The International Phonetic Alphabet can always be used, for example, or someone could come up with a completely ad-hoc method to make notes for later. Creating a written form is not a formalized process.