# Does the 14th amendment really give citizenship to "anchor babies" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028 "2006-05-02T01:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/61 "2006-05-05T02:59:22Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] You saying in another thread “Thank goodness for the Minutemen” and not taking it back after other doper posted the evidence that they are not removing their racist members, speaks volumes. [/QUOTE] You gone down this infantile road before: “I don’t like what you said. Take it back, take it back.” Give me a fucking break. And “speaks volumes” usually means that it says nothing or you don’t know what it says. Now I don’t know what thread you’re talking about, and I don’t really give a shit. Are there racists in the Minutemen. My bet is yes. Just as there are racists in many. many organizations. If someone in their organization displays racist actions they should kick that person out. I’ve already denounced the INDIVIDUALS. Now if you want to prove to me that the Minutemen suffer a degree of racism among its members equivalent to the KKK, I will denounce the ORGANIZATION, as well. If it’ll make you happier, I’ll even “take it back”. And give you a lollipop. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/62 "2006-05-05T03:00:20Z")
It is just that I do take into consideration a saying that goes like this: “you can recognize the character of a nation by the heroes it remembers”. When in a discussion like this your heroes are the Minutemen, it is you who has to come out of the hole that you dug. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/63 "2006-05-05T03:01:39Z")
And for the record, THANK GOODNESS FOR THE MINUTEMEN. Without their brave, principled, selfless acyion I doubt Congress would have felt compelled to address the issue. And that woulod have meant no protests. And that would have meant that America wouldn’t have been as aware of the problem as they are now. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/64 "2006-05-05T03:05:50Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] It is just that I do take into consideration a saying that goes like this: “you can recognize the character of a nation by the heroes it remembers”. When in a discussion like this your heroes are the Minutemen, it is you who has to come out of the hole that you dug. [/QUOTE] Good for you. Perhaps you should consider a job doing those corporate “success” and “teamwork” posters you find in airports. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/65 "2006-05-05T03:05:52Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] And for the record, THANK GOODNESS FOR THE MINUTEMEN. Without their brave, principled, selfless acyion I doubt Congress would have felt compelled to address the issue. And that woulod have meant no protests. And that would have meant that America wouldn’t have been as aware of the problem as they are now. [/QUOTE] They are, of course, patrolling the border with Canada even as we speak? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/66 "2006-05-05T03:06:37Z")
And for the record, The Minutemen were called “clowns” by the local conservative press, the other doper found neo-nazi connections, and locally many do suspect the Minutemen were involved when some illegals were found recently summarily executed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/67 "2006-05-05T03:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Good for you. Perhaps you should consider a job doing those corporate “success” and “teamwork” posters you find in airports. [/QUOTE] The local conservative press actually concentrated on the teamwork angle to call the Minutemen clowns, that is, the local authorities found them more a hindrance than a help. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/68 "2006-05-05T03:09:02Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] They are, of course, patrolling the border with Canada even as we speak? [/QUOTE] I don’t know. I think some might be. Of course, with the limited manpower they have they disperse themselves where they feel they would be more effective. If you think they should devote more of their resources to the northern border, I suggest you write them a letter or email. If your reasoning is sound, I’m sure they would appreciate the perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/69 "2006-05-05T03:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] I don’t know. [/QUOTE] Why don’t you know? If you’re so proud of them, protecting our nation and all. Don’t you think that you should have a clear understanding of just who they choose to protect us from? Shouldn’t you have a clear understanding, and an ability to explain to the curious or ignorant, something about their leaders, their policies, and their goals? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/70 "2006-05-05T03:31:24Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Why don’t you know? If you’re so proud of them, protecting our nation and all. Don’t you think that you should have a clear understanding of just who they choose to protect us from? Shouldn’t you have a clear understanding, and an ability to explain to the curious or ignorant, something about their leaders, their policies, and their goals? [/QUOTE] Maybe. But you’ll appreciate the information so much more, and retain it so much longer, if you do the work yourself. But since you’re so interested, I’ll help. [Here.](http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/) ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/71 "2006-05-05T03:42:15Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] And for the record, THANK GOODNESS FOR THE MINUTEMEN. Without their brave, principled, selfless acyion I doubt Congress would have felt compelled to address the issue. [/QUOTE] The people behind [shit like this](http://www.operationshameonyou.org/index.htm)? Which of those adjectives apply exactly? You’ll notice that that site has absolutely nothing to do with the current immigration status of the people in question. Not only are many day laborers here legally, some of them are actually citizens. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/72 "2006-05-05T03:53:52Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Maybe. But you’ll appreciate the information so much more, and retain it so much longer, if you do the work yourself. But since you’re so interested, I’ll help. [Here.](http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/) [/QUOTE] No thank you, I rather go for less biased news, and from a former member: [http://lists.topica.com/lists/politics/read/message.html?sort=d&mid=912329002&start=29000](http://lists.topica.com/lists/politics/read/message.html?sort=d&mid=912329002&start=29000) > [@](#): > > Texas Minutemen head quits, cites racism in group > National leaders say plans to patrol Houston still on > > By EDWARD HEGSTROM Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle > > The head of the Texas Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has quit, saying he has > been unable to overcome racism among members in Goliad. > > National leaders say the resignation of Bill Parmley won’t have any effect > on the planned actions targeting illegal immigrants in Houston and other > Texas cities this October. > > However, they also acknowledge Parmley was a driving force in organizing > that effort. > > It was Parmley’s idea to run operations in Houston targeting day laborers > and the contractors who hire them. And Parmley, a petroleum geologist and > landowner in Goliad County, bought the plane tickets to fly in national > Minuteman leaders from Arizona last month to begin organizing efforts here. > > Parmley said he has become concerned that some of the Minuteman activists in > his region have a vendetta against the Goliad County sheriff, who is > Hispanic. > > He asserted they also have made comments about shooting illegal immigrants > or letting them die from dehydration. > > “That’s their mind-set, and I don’t want my name and my reputation > associated with a group of people who are racist like that,” he said. You still want to be allied with them? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/73 "2006-05-05T04:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig] So for your mother to lose her citizenship, (a) the Supreme Court would have to rule that the Fourteenth Amendment, at a minimum, does not forbid Congress from denying citizenship to children of illegal aliens; (b) Congress would have to enact such a denial _and make it indefinitely retroactive_; and (c) the Supreme Court would also have to bless the retroactive denial. We’re reaching odds that would make astronomers blanch. [/QUOTE] That clearly states your point (and for me, for the first time). I did misrepresent your position. Sorry about that. As long as you are leaving Mom alone, OK then. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/74 "2006-05-05T05:28:05Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] No thank you, I rather go for less biased news, and from a former member: [http://lists.topica.com/lists/politics/read/message.html?sort=d&mid=912329002&start=29000](http://lists.topica.com/lists/politics/read/message.html?sort=d&mid=912329002&start=29000) You still want to be allied with them? [/QUOTE] Come on **Gigo** , how many times do you want me to say the same thing? In fact, just reread my last couple of posts regarding this. My position is clear. It’s getting tedious. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/75 "2006-05-05T05:34:57Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] My position is clear. It’s getting tedious. [/QUOTE] Heh. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/76 "2006-05-05T05:56:07Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] My position is clear. It’s getting tedious. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cervaise] Heh. [/QUOTE] You can say that again. And like the record shows, one can also see the character of the person by the heroes it has; it could be just ignorance, but when someone is that ignorant of what the Minutemen have been up to, it makes us even less likely to trust anything of what they say. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/77 "2006-05-05T06:07:19Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] You can say that again. And like the record shows, one can also see the character of the person by the heroes it has; it could be just ignorance, but when someone is that ignorant of what the Minutemen have been up to, it makes us even less likely to trust anything of what they say. [/QUOTE] If this made sense or displayed an understanding of my position, I might be concerned. So, I needn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/78 "2006-05-05T06:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] If this made sense or displayed an understanding of my position, I might be concerned. So, I needn’t be. [/QUOTE] “Brave, principled” Minutemen? I see clearly you are not concerned on what you say. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/79 "2006-05-05T06:47:35Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] “Brave, principled” Minutemen? I see clearly you are not concerned on what you say. [/QUOTE] You know, on this board people, includiing me have gotten their shit jumped because they paint a alrge group with a broad brush when it applies to only a segemnt of that group. In this very thread you have argued fervently, albeit quite unsuccessfully, that these protesters weren’t boycotting—that the protest include boycotters, but that they were a minority. You thought it wrong that people were painting the whole group with the brush deserving of a few of them (your estimation). But here you are doing that very thing. I told you more than once that I denounce ANY individual in the MM or any organization that are racist. At your pestering I went further and told you that I would denounce any organization that you could prove had an incidence of racism among its members equivalent to the KKK. You then cite one small chapter where someone viewed the others and racist and left. That one small chapter does not define the whole organization. In fact, that leader leaving, goes to show that the tenets the MInutemen are not racist, or he wouldn’t have had a problem. So, either prove your point that the organization as a whole is racist or stop the dishonest, weak tactic of coloring the whole with the paint of the few. Now I hope that explains my take on things. I know you want me to be a racist, so you can discount all arguments that threaten you, but that is not the reality. Sorry to burst your bubble. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028/80 "2006-05-05T06:56:46Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] That one small chapter [/quote] Texas is small? > [@](#): > > does not define the whole organization. In fact, that leader leaving, goes to show that the tenets the MInutemen are not racist, or he wouldn’t have had a problem. So, either prove your point that the organization as a whole is racist or stop the dishonest, weak tactic of coloring the whole with the paint of the few. :rolleyes: 😕 :rolleyes: 😕 :rolleyes: Well that does it, you really have a problem of understanding something basic here, him leaving leaves the rest to do the same or worse, **the leader that was not racist left**. > [@](#): > > Now I hope that explains my take on things. Actually it made it worse. > [@](#): > > I know you want me to be a racist, so you can discount all arguments that threaten you, but that is not the reality. Sorry to burst your bubble. Good news that you are not racist, but you are really a willful ignorant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-14th-amendment-really-give-citizenship-to-anchor-babies/355028.md?page=5)