# Does the Bible specifically outlaw rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645 "2008-05-09T01:46:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/1 "2008-05-09T01:46:25Z")
I know the Bible has specific laws against incest, and against “coveting thy neighbor’s wife”, but is there any specific law that would protect an unmarried, unrelated woman from being raped? The only law I’m aware of is that if a man gets a woman pregnant, he must marry her. Please provide chapter & verse sites if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/2 "2008-05-09T01:59:52Z")
Deuteronomy 22:23-29 It depends on if it happens in the city or in the coutryside, and whether the woman is betrothed or not. > [@](#): > > If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. > > But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her. > > If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/3 "2008-05-09T02:22:45Z")
> [@](#): > > He may not divorce her all his days. So what you’re saying is, raping a non-betrothed woman results in a fate _worse_ than death. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/4 "2008-05-09T02:26:47Z")
And are there any verses, that neutrally or even favourably describe wartime rape? ---
**Author:** ![BlueKangaroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3d9bf3/32.png) [@BlueKangaroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueKangaroo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/5 "2008-05-09T02:34:38Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] So what you’re saying is, raping a non-betrothed woman results in a fate _worse_ than death. [/QUOTE] At least for her. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/6 "2008-05-09T03:11:38Z")
[QUOTE=BlueKangaroo] At least for her. [/QUOTE] That’s what I was going to say. Because why wouldn’t any woman want to be forced to marry her rapist with no possibility of ever escaping him? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/7 "2008-05-09T03:48:29Z")
Although some might call it stretch of meaning, “Thou shalt not steal” covers it. Taking a woman’s person against her wishes for whatever reason is a form of theft, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/8 "2008-05-09T03:54:07Z")
[QUOTE=Chimera] That’s what I was going to say. Because why wouldn’t any woman want to be forced to marry her rapist with no possibility of ever escaping him? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Which is a reasonable reaction in the USA in 2008, but totally unreasonable for Palestine in the bronze age. Remember these laws were intended for a society with no police force, no social security and a massive surplus of women. The result was that without children you were very likely to starve in old age, without marriage a woman was very unlikely tobe able to raise a child, and a woman who wasn’t a virgin was very unlikely to find a husband. So what was the alternative to a woman marrying her rapist? There was no police force or even basic administrative system to force the rapist to pay child suport. In a society where most children died before adulthood people wouldn’t accept the idea of taxation funded handouts to raise someone else’s child when there own were starving to death. You could I suppose force a random man to marry the woman, but that is hardly any more fair. So as easy as it is to roll our eyes at the apparently horrible solution, it was probably the most sensible and kindest available at the time. Anyway this reply and your commentary really belongs in GD I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/9 "2008-05-09T04:16:14Z")
**Blake** , but what about men using this kind of rape to marry socially upwards? Find the village chiefs daughter, stalk her untill you catch her alone (maybe she’s getting water from the well with her sisters and she’s falling a little behind) rape her, present yourself to the chief, and -hey presto- you’re the bosses new son-in-law with all the added status! Maybe that was on a lot of guys minds and maybe that was the reason why all the “valuable” girls were locked away untill they were married off at 14 years old. Some related news; the practice of marrying girls off to their rapists apparently is still practiced, even although outlawed, in Bangladesh. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/10 "2008-05-09T14:40:13Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] **Blake** , but what about men using this kind of rape to marry socially upwards? Find the village chiefs daughter, stalk her untill you catch her alone (maybe she’s getting water from the well with her sisters and she’s falling a little behind) rape her, present yourself to the chief, and -hey presto- you’re the bosses new son-in-law with all the added status! [/QUOTE] That’s covered, too. See the account of the rape of Dina, [Genesis 34:1](http://scripturetext.com/genesis/34-1.htm)-6 (New American Standard Bible translation): > [@](#): > > Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the daughters of the land. When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her by force. He was deeply attracted to Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the girl and spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, “Get me this young girl for a wife.” Now Jacob heard that he had defiled Dinah his daughter; but his sons were with his livestock in the field, so Jacob kept silent until they came in. Then Hamor the father of Shechem went out to Jacob to speak with him. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/11 "2008-05-09T14:57:24Z")
This is something to file away for discussion the next time you get finger-wagged by a Bible literalist, who claims our laws are based on the word of God. When he says the rules in the Bible still stand, regardless of the passage of centuries, remind him that: A betrothed virgin raped in the city must be stoned to death along with the rapist. A non-betrothed virgin who is raped must marry the rapist after he pays her father 50 shekels. It says so in the Bible, right there in Deuteronomy 22. The literalist knows that every word of the Bible is true, having been inspired directly by God. The book of Timothy says so, and it must be true, because (see previous sentence.) ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/12 "2008-05-09T14:58:51Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] And are there any verses, that neutrally or even favourably describe wartime rape? [/QUOTE] Wartime rape, in the sense of marriage by force, is described netrually or favorably in [Deuteronomy 21:10](http://scripturetext.com/deuteronomy/21-10.htm)-14 (New American Standard Bible translation, again): > [@](#): > > When you go out to battle against your enemies, and the LORD your G-d delivers them into your hands and you take them away captive, and see among the captives a beautiful woman, and have a desire for her and would take her as a wife for yourself, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. She shall also remove the clothes of her captivity and shall remain in your house, and mourn her father and mother a full month; and after that you may go in to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. It shall be, if you are not pleased with her, then you shall let her go wherever she wishes; but you shall certainly not sell her for money, you shall not mistreat her, because you have humbled her. Many scholars present these verses in a positive light, because the woman becomes a wife rather than a slave, and because she is given time to mourn the loss of her family rather than being raped immediately. I take a less positive view of the “wife” aspect - she has no say in the matter, and I don’t see any mention of the marriage contract (_ketubah_), which would normally specify a settlement in case of divorce. So, I’m not sure how much much of an improvement over slavery this “marriage” represents. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/13 "2008-05-09T15:04:17Z")
[QUOTE=cwthree] That’s covered, too. See the account of the rape of Dina, [Genesis 34:1](http://scripturetext.com/genesis/34-1.htm)-6 (New American Standard Bible translation): [/QUOTE] But note what happens afterwards: > [@](#): > > Now the sons of Jacob came in from the field when they heard it; and the men were grieved, and they were very angry because he had done a disgraceful thing in Israel by lying with Jacob’s daughter, for such a thing ought not to be done. The sons basically create a trap - they say “sure you can marry our sister, but you and all of your people have to get circumcised first”. Which they do. > [@](#): > > The young man did not delay to do the thing, because he was delighted with Jacob’s daughter. Now he was more respected than all the household of his father. Then, at the marriage, the rapist and his people let the sons in, thinking they are now all friends: > [@](#): > > "These men are friendly with us; therefore let them live in the land and trade in it, for behold, the land is large enough for them. Let us take their daughters in marriage, and give our daughters to them. Instead, while the ‘groom’ and his folk are rolling around in agony from the adult circumsicion, they are all murdered by the sons: > [@](#): > > Now it came about on the third day, when they were in pain, that two of Jacob’s sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brothers, each took his sword and came upon the city unawares, and killed every male. > > They killed Hamor and his son Shechem with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah from Shechem’s house, and went forth. > > Jacob’s sons came upon the slain and looted the city, because they had defiled their sister. In turn, they rape and enslave all of these people’s women: > [@](#): > > and they captured and looted all their wealth and all their little ones and their wives, even all that was in the houses. Jacob is hardly happy about it, and bitterly reproaches the sons for their treachery and brutality: > [@](#): > > Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, “You have brought trouble on me by making me odious among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites; and my men being few in number, they will gather together against me and attack me and I will be destroyed, I and my household.” The sons are unrepentant: > [@](#): > > But they said, “Should he treat our sister as a harlot?” Dunno what sort of “lesson” you are supposed to get out of this sorry tale of rape, murder and deceit, but it certainly is _not_ that raping people is “okay” as a form of marriage. On the contrary, it seems here that everyone is doing wrong - except the sister, who has no choice. Jacob simply wishes to keep the peace, and so is willing to trade in his daughter to do it; his sons on the other hand are outraged, and decide on murder and revenge instead. Jacob is outraged by this, but more it seems because of the threat caused by the bad reputation than because murder and revenge are bad in and of themselves. On the one hand Jacob comes across as a coward willing to sell his daughter to her rapist for safety (and his sons as standing up for their raped sister); on the other, as a far-sighted leader willing to create peace out of anarchy (and his sons as a pack of brutal, treacherous killers). Who is in the “right” is never in fact made clear, if any are … ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/14 "2008-05-09T15:16:33Z")
Thoughtful analysis, **Malthus**. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/15 "2008-05-09T15:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=cwthree] Thoughtful analysis, **Malthus**. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Thanks! 🙂 The thing about the OT is, it isn’t always obvious what exactly the stories are supposed to mean. Or even who the “good guys” are. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/16 "2008-05-09T15:26:25Z")
That’s a story that Pterry retells in the second _Science of Discworld_ book, which deals with the importance of storytelling on human development. He cites it as a clash between “barbarian” honour and “civilised” pragmatism. As to the “wartime rape” passage, you might do well to compare it with “Your men are all dead or have fled, and I will do what I like with you” attitude that’s probably been a lot more prevalent throughout human history - allowing a whole month’s mourning time and forbidding the captive to be ill-treated or sold is enlightened compared to _recent_ history, never mind four thousand years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/17 "2008-05-09T15:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Dunno what sort of “lesson” you are supposed to get out of this sorry tale of rape, murder and deceit, but it certainly is _not_ that raping people is “okay” as a form of marriage. [/QUOTE] Although it would seem to suggest that raping people as revenge is okay. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/18 "2008-05-09T15:28:24Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] Which is a reasonable reaction in the USA in 2008, but totally unreasonable for Palestine in the bronze age. Remember these laws were intended for a society with no police force, no social security and a massive surplus of women. The result was that without children you were very likely to starve in old age, without marriage a woman was very unlikely tobe able to raise a child, and a woman who wasn’t a virgin was very unlikely to find a husband. So what was the alternative to a woman marrying her rapist? There was no police force or even basic administrative system to force the rapist to pay child suport. In a society where most children died before adulthood people wouldn’t accept the idea of taxation funded handouts to raise someone else’s child when there own were starving to death. You could I suppose force a random man to marry the woman, but that is hardly any more fair. So as easy as it is to roll our eyes at the apparently horrible solution, it was probably the most sensible and kindest available at the time. Anyway this reply and your commentary really belongs in GD I suppose. [/QUOTE] At the risk of further straying into GD territory . . . Saying we have to view the Bible in the context of when it was written makes perfect sense if you see it as a document written (or at the very least, modified) by its human authors. If you see it as the infallible word of God, well, then not so much. You can try to defend having a woman marry a rapist as an unfortunate necessity, but how on earth would you defend the bit about _stoning a rape victim to death_ because she was too scared to cry for help? (See the first sentence quoted by **Can Handle The Truth** , above.) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/19 "2008-05-09T15:36:38Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Although it would seem to suggest that raping people as revenge is okay. [/QUOTE] Really? That assumes that the Sons of Jacob are the “good guys” and what they are doing is _morally right_ - which in turn implies that Jacob is wrong. Remember, he calls their acts “odious”. Who is the good guys here - Jacob or his sons? Or neither? Or are they both partly right and partly wrong - Jacob right tio want peace but wrong to allow the rape of his daughter, and the sons right to not allow the rape of their sister - but wrong in indulging in rape and murder in revenge? My point is this - the OT is often a lot more complex than some people here give it credit for. Determining what is “right” and “wrong” as it emerges from these stories isn’t easy. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645/20 "2008-05-09T15:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=Blake] Which is a reasonable reaction in the USA in 2008, but totally unreasonable for Palestine in the bronze age. Remember these laws were intended for a society with no police force, no social security and a massive surplus of women. The result was that without children you were very likely to starve in old age, without marriage a woman was very unlikely tobe able to raise a child, and a woman who wasn’t a virgin was very unlikely to find a husband. So what was the alternative to a woman marrying her rapist? There was no police force or even basic administrative system to force the rapist to pay child suport. In a society where most children died before adulthood people wouldn’t accept the idea of taxation funded handouts to raise someone else’s child when there own were starving to death. You could I suppose force a random man to marry the woman, but that is hardly any more fair. So as easy as it is to roll our eyes at the apparently horrible solution, it was probably the most sensible and kindest available at the time. Anyway this reply and your commentary really belongs in GD I suppose. [/QUOTE] That is probably the best spin you could put on it, and it is a valid guess on what the hell the bible is trying to say. Another valid guess would be that the only reason the woman was forced into marriage was because she has been defiled and therefore lost her value to any future husbands and the rapist was the best she was gonna get now. _shrug_ And Lot, a “just” and “righteous” man in the eyes of god, gives up his two young, poor daughters to a mob of angry men and tells them in no uncertain terms to do as they will. Take from that happy little story what you will. Later on the same two daughters on the lam with their old man Lot get him drunk and double team him, each becoming pregnant–but I guess that’s neither here nor there in this discussion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bible-specifically-outlaw-rape/448645.md?page=2)