# Does the Bill of Rights guarantee Atheism?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 26, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106 "2002-06-26T21:22:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Neptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptune)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/1 "2002-06-26T21:22:41Z")
[quote]
CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF;
[quote]
The Bill of Rights guarantees the right of people to worship as they choose, but does it guarantee the right _ **not** _ to worship?
---
### Author:  [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/2 "2002-06-26T21:47:28Z")
Yes. _Any_ endorsements of God/Gods _is_ respecting an establishment of religion.
The state can’t really say anything about the nature of God, including whether or not he exists.
---
### Author:  [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/3 "2002-06-26T22:09:48Z")
The Supreme Court has so found, so yes. I’ll try to track down the cases if you like.
Sua
---
### Author:  [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/4 "2002-06-26T23:33:32Z")
Wouldn’t it be axiomatic, in any case, that the right to do something implies the right not to do that same thing?
---
### Author:  [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/5 "2002-06-26T23:38:43Z")
pldennison: Not nececelery.
If the IRS says, “You have the right to pay your income taxes by check or by credit card,” that does not automatically give you the right to choose “Neither.”
---
### Author:  [@Neptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptune)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/6 "2002-06-27T02:00:44Z")
I’d like to ask the same question regarding the **Canadian Bill of Rights**. The preamble begins:
> [@](#):
>
> The Parliament of Canada, affirming that the Canadian Nation is founded upon principles that acknowledge the supremacy of **God**
Doesn’t sound promising.
---
### Author:  [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/7 "2002-06-27T02:06:23Z")
Given the insistence that the USA is a “Christian Nation” – you’d think the US Constitution would have a preamble like Canada’s. Yet we don’t. How odd… (Many state constitutions have similar wording, however.)
Simply put, freedom of religion entails freedom _from_ anybody else’s religion. Unless the government has some means of forcing everyone to choose some religion, that means atheism is a protected option.
Further, seemingly inoffensive actions (like putting “In God We Trust” on money) may not be the equivalent of, or the first step toward, an oppressive theocracy. But the point is that, if those actions accomplish nothing, then there’s no point in Congress taking them. Unless Congress is in the business of passing ineffectual laws.
---
### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/8 "2002-06-27T02:28:02Z")
The founders were wise enough to know that religion doesn’t need the government’s permission or approval to be believed or practice.
---
### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/9 "2002-06-27T02:56:08Z")
Well, is the Church of England an establishment in Canada like it is in Great Britain?
---
### Author:  [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/10 "2002-06-27T02:58:14Z")
I was taught in my jurisprudence class that the First Amendment was originally created only to prevent the Feds from adopting a national religion. At the time of the founding, many of the states did actually have state-established religions; the 1st Amendment was intended only to create neutrality between sects. It wasn’t until the 1940s that the courts began applying it to the states, banning prayer in schools and such.
I didn’t pay much attention in that class, though, so don’t take my word on any of this… 😃
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/11 "2002-06-27T04:08:20Z")
Since when has the United States been “a Christian Nation?”
---
### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/12 "2002-06-27T05:07:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Monty \*
> \*\*Since when has the United States been “a Christian Nation?” \*\*
You mean apart from the fact that most Americans are Christians of some sort?
---
### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/13 "2002-06-27T05:31:58Z")
—You mean apart from the fact that most Americans are Christians of some sort?—
Yes apart from that.
Or are you suggesting that merely because most of our citizens are white, we are a White nation, founded for Whites along White lines of thinking?
---
### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/14 "2002-06-27T05:34:50Z")
The religion of the majority of Americans is completely separate from any official religion. Most people who argue that the United States is a Christian nation are trying to prove that Christianity is the only state-sanctioned religion. This is what **Monty** is concerned about.
As an aside, I think **TheeGrumpy** ’s use of the term “Christian Nation” was entirely sarcastic.
---
### Author:  [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/15 "2002-06-27T07:13:56Z")
More importantly, **should** we have the right to not worship? I say yes. I am extremely uncomfortable with the notion that you are free to choose any religion as long as it’s a sect of Christianity. That’s not my idea of freedom. Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch where every menu choice had Spam in it.
---
### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/16 "2002-06-27T08:01:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Neptune \*
> \*\*I’d like to ask the same question regarding the **Canadian Bill of Rights**. The preamble begins:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > The Parliament of Canada, affirming that the Canadian Nation is founded upon principles that acknowledge the supremacy of God
>
> Doesn’t sound promising. \*\*
**Neptune,** God is mentioned in the preambles to both the _Canadian Bill of Rights_ and the [Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms](http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html#garantie), but as far as I know, the courts have not given any weight to those references. Instead, they have relied on the substantive provisions of the _Charter_, such as the prohbition on discrimination (s.15) and the guarantee of freedom of religion (s. 2) to conclude that governments cannot favour one religion over another.
The landmark case on this issue is [R. v. Big M Drug Mart Ltd. [1985] 1 S.C.R. 295](http://www.lexum.umontreal.ca/csc-scc/en/pub/1985/vol1/html/1985scr1_0295.html), in which the Supreme Court of Canada struck down the federal _Lord’s Day Act,_ which compelled Sunday closings for stores. From the summary of the decision:
> [@](#):
>
> The _Lord’s Day Act_ to the extent that it binds all to a sectarian Christian ideal, works a form of coercion inimical to the spirit of the _Charter._ The Act gives the appearance of discrimination against non-Christian Canadians. Religious values rooted in Christian morality are translated into a positive law binding on believers and non-believers alike. Non-Christians are prohibited for religious reasons from carrying out otherwise lawful, moral and normal activities. **Any law, purely religious in purpose, which denies non-Christians the right to work on Sunday denies them the right to practise their religion and infringes their religious freedom.** The protection of one religion and the concomitant non-protection of others imports a disparate impact destructive of the religious freedom of society.
>
> The power to compel, on religious grounds, the universal observance of the day of rest preferred by one religion is not consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multi-cultural heritage of Canadians recognized in s. 27 of the Charter.
This case didn’t deal with the specific issue of atheists, but I would think the same principles apply.
---
### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/17 "2002-06-27T08:04:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Neurotik \*
> \*\*Well, is the Church of England an establishment in Canada like it is in Great Britain? \*\*
I believe it may have been established in some of the eastern provinces in the pre-Confederation period. However, it is not currently established in Canada.
---
### Author:  [@Neptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptune)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/18 "2002-06-27T14:58:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> the Supreme Court of Canada struck down the federal Lord’s Day Act, which compelled Sunday closings for stores
What about Nova Scotia? It’s still illegal for stores to open on Sunday here.
Maybe they changed the name, no longer affiliating it with religious practice. Those who condone the law say that it’s nice just for everyone to have one quiet day.
---
### Author:  [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/19 "2002-06-27T15:27:37Z")
[QUOTE]
\*Originally posted by Neptune \*
\*\*
[quote]
CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF;
> [@](#):
>
> The Bill of Rights guarantees the right of people to worship as they choose, but does it guarantee the right _ **not** _ to worship? \*\*
Let’s assume for the moment that it does not. Who determines what is acceptable for worship? Given that I can choose to worship as I see fit so long as I worship something, let’s assume I choose to worship Satan. Is that good?
The determination that you must have some religion implies that some organization gets to yay or nay what constitutes valid worship. This is exactly what the constitution seeks to prevent. Thus, freedom of religion must include the freedom to have no religion.
---
### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [June 27, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106/20 "2002-06-27T16:08:12Z")
If I am _compelled_ to engage in any religious observance, that is not _free_ exercise of religion. Consequently I cannot be compelled to engage in religious observance; this would abridge my right to the free exercise of religion.
A law which forbade me from expressing athiest views might arguably not be one prohibiting the free exercise of religion, but it would certainly be one abridging freedom of speech, and would be unconstitutional on that ground.
So it seems to me that the rights of athiests have similar protections to the rights of believers. Which, obviously, is as it should be.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-bill-of-rights-guarantee-atheism/116106.md?page=2)