# Does the Book of Revelation actually say how people get to heaven in the end times? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669 "2020-04-13T01:21:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/1 "2020-04-13T01:21:56Z")
It’s always kind of implied if not outright said by people who riff on the prophecies that the true believers are magically lifted into heaven. Thus avoiding all that unpleasant dying stuff. Is there anything to support this in the actual text? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/2 "2020-04-13T03:36:50Z")
No. All of that “The Rapture” bullshit comes from the English mistranslation of the Latin term for “caught up” in Thessalonians 4:17 (NIV): _After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever._ This is taken by some to be a literal arrival on Earth and physical ascendency into Heaven by believers. Of course, they conveniently ignore a few verses before: _We don’t need to write to you about your love for one another. God himself has taught you to love one another. In fact, you do love all God’s family all around Macedonia. Brothers and sisters, we are asking you to love one another more and more. And do everything you can to live a quiet life. You should mind your own business. And work with your hands, just as we told you to. Then unbelievers will have respect for your everyday life. And you won’t have to depend on anyone._ Amazing the advice you can find in “the Good Book” when you actually read the thing instead of the select bits and pieces fed to you by others. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/3 "2020-04-13T03:46:38Z")
The idea of the end times and rapture is [cobbled together from bits and pieces throughout the NT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture), including [the verse Stranger mentioned](https://www.bibleref.com/1-Thessalonians/4/1-Thessalonians-4-17.html)[.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/4 "2020-04-13T04:07:18Z")
Revelations does say that those whose names are found in the Book of Life will make it in, all who are not, are cast into Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/5 "2020-04-13T04:13:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Revelations does say that those whose names are found in the Book of Life will make it in, all who are not, are cast into Hell. Can we bring beer? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/6 "2020-04-13T04:53:49Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Can we bring beer? > > Stranger In heaven, there ain’t no beer. That’s why we drink it here. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/7 "2020-04-13T12:44:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Revelations does say that those whose names are found in the Book of Life will make it in, all who are not, are cast into Hell. Remind me again: Which place has all those virgins? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/8 "2020-04-13T13:00:55Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Remind me again: Which place has all those virgins? I’m pretty sure that there are very few women who would prefer a virgin, and I think most men would also prefer a partner with at least some experience. ---
**Author:** ![Casparlatete](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/casparlatete/32/3377_2.png) [@Casparlatete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casparlatete)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/9 "2020-04-13T13:07:07Z")
Both heaven and hell are right here on earth - no need to travel anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/10 "2020-04-13T13:15:35Z")
A lot of the Bible is open to interpretation. The _BoR_ [especially](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Interpretations) so. Note that among several views of the book includes Preterism (which is what I see in it) that interprets the book to refer to Apostolic Era events only, with a heavy load of symbolism. I.e., there is no future end times when people will be raptured. Whatever the book talks about has already happened (literally or figuratively). Don’t expect any usuable “actually say” out of the _BoR_. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/11 "2020-04-13T13:42:30Z")
Many Hindus don’t believe in Heaven or Hell. The idea being that the soul (the remnant after death) unlike the body doesn’t have senses like heat, touch etc. They believe that souls (or consciousness) cannot feel sorrow or joy. It’s an absurd idea to burn the soul or give it an orgasm. Then again, different Hindus have different beliefs and some none at all. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/12 "2020-04-13T13:58:46Z")
The numbers in Revelation have to do with who God will seal: > [@](#): > > Rev 7:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. . The seal gives God’s servants certain immunity from the upcoming plagues. Later these 144,000: > [@](#): > > Rev 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth… 4b They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. The first fruits would indicate there will be more, and Revelation ends with not so much people going up, but God coming down: > [@Rev](#): > > 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/13 "2020-04-13T14:03:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > No. All of that “The Rapture” bullshit comes from the English mistranslation of the Latin term for “caught up” in Thessalonians 4:17 (NIV): > _After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever._ > This is taken by some to be a literal arrival on Earth and physical ascendency into Heaven by believers. I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here. What you put in italics is identical to the concept that I hear called the “rapture” by believers. And how is that not talking about a literal arrival on Earth and physical ascendancy into heaven? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/14 "2020-04-13T14:43:03Z")
Yes, the idea is that the living followers will be “caught up” to join the dead who are already with God. Some take this to mean they will completely disappear and others to mean their souls will be taken up and their bodies left behind. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/15 "2020-04-14T03:56:22Z")
Is there a factual answer to the OP or is this open to whatever interpretation one wants? ---
**Author:** ![Casparlatete](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/casparlatete/32/3377_2.png) [@Casparlatete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casparlatete)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/16 "2020-04-14T11:47:57Z")
Virgil wrote that Aeneas, having entered the underworld to meet his dead father, Anchises, showed him a large group of men by the river of Lethe, they were souls of the dead awaiting the purging of their sins from there former lives - this could take up to 1,000 years! - after which they would be given a second body & be allowed to return to Earth. While being introduced to them, Aeneas not only met his fallen comrades from the Trojan war, but had the unique opportunity of meeting his _own_ descendants of the future. Now isn’t that a thought? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/17 "2020-04-14T12:21:01Z")
There are two fundamentally different ways to interpret Revelation. The first is: what did the writer actually intend to mean, and to whom was it addressed? What was the historical and political and religious context at the time? The second is: what do people reading right at this moment need it to mean? The answers to these questions are diametrically opposed. Far more than almost any other part of the Bible. Reputable biblical scholars are in basic agreement that Revelation is a sample of a style of resistance literature popular from about 200 BC to 200 AD known as apocalyptic, which has many conventional tropes such as symbolic numbers, colors, metals, garments. It uses coded language to describe current events. For example Rome, at the time oppressing Christians, is the Harlot of Babylon. Nothing in it was meant to be taken literally. It’s a discouraging fact about human beings that the concept of metaphor is out of reach for most of them. Thus we have the Jehovah’s Witnesses who fully believe that there is an exact number of saved, 144,000. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/18 "2020-04-14T12:50:06Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > There are two fundamentally different ways to interpret Revelation. The first is: what did the writer actually intend to mean, and to whom was it addressed? What was the historical and political and religious context at the time? The second is: what do people reading right at this moment need it to mean? > > The answers to these questions are diametrically opposed. Far more than almost any other part of the Bible. Reputable biblical scholars are in basic agreement that Revelation is a sample of a style of resistance literature popular from about 200 BC to 200 AD known as apocalyptic, which has many conventional tropes such as symbolic numbers, colors, metals, garments. It uses coded language to describe current events. For example Rome, at the time oppressing Christians, is the Harlot of Babylon. Nothing in it was meant to be taken literally. > > It’s a discouraging fact about human beings that the concept of metaphor is out of reach for most of them. Thus we have the Jehovah’s Witnesses who fully believe that there is an exact number of saved, 144,000. I would say “want” it to mean as opposed to “need”, although I can see your point on “need”. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/19 "2020-04-14T13:00:22Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Is there a factual answer to the OP or is this open to whatever interpretation one wants? The latter. Here’s a [repost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Interpretations) of the link to to _some_ of the interpretations of the overall meaning of _BoR_. Never mind individual passages who interpretation is heavily influenced by the approach to the book as a whole. Take the Whore of Babylon: future figure of evil or ancient Rome? At least the list of likely interpretations there is short. For “the rapture”, it’s not at all that simple. But a detached interpretation would most likely discount the idea of a future event where select people are “taken up” bodily. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669/20 "2020-04-15T01:15:15Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Nothing in it was meant to be taken literally. What is meant is not said, and What is said is not meant. Got it. (reaches for decoder ring) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-book-of-revelation-actually-say-how-people-get-to-heaven-in-the-end-times/851669.md?page=2)