# Does the Buffet Challenge debunk psychic powers once and for all? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244 "2014-03-21T20:14:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/121 "2014-03-24T20:32:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many #2 pencils/week would that be? Hey, you should know you’re not supposed to ask for help with homework problems on this site! ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/122 "2014-03-24T21:19:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you either can’t answer, or won’t answer. The answer is won’t. and part of the reason you do not get to claim this is I did not present her as proof, you asked me, but I never claimed that as proof, as I asked you how you slept. I never claimed you having difficulty sleeping (or not) as proof. You are the one who asked a irrelevant question, and just like mine, how did you sleep, got too personal, yours did also. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/123 "2014-03-25T11:41:06Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Also I must point out that she is the one that talks to the dead, which I don’t see as helpful, so reluctant to recommend her. The topic is about psychic powers. Talking to the dead is well within the scope of that ability. If you are certain you know someone who is capable of such a fantastic feat, how can you in good conscience not share that information? Particularly when she has a public web sit already. Imagine the peace of mind your friend would be able to provide to the friends and families of those aboard Flight 370. Why allow them to suffer a minute longer? Think of the fantastic advances to science, to say nothing of contributing to fighting ignorance. This would be far bigger than finding a cure to cancer. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/124 "2014-03-25T12:01:11Z")
Nope. Instead, I propose the following possible reasons: - James Randi and now Buffet do not have much of a hold over the mindspace of the psychically-gifted. - Genuine psychics see no need to obtain a certificate of competence from Randi or Buffet. - Money might not be the supreme motivitating factor for the genuinely psychically-gifted. - Psychics are not stupid enough to believe they can save millions of lives with all that money - if it could be done, it would’ve been already. - Psychics realize that, were they to succeed, it’s far more likely they will get picked up by the CIA and tortured, than they are to receive a billion dollars from a fawning Buffet. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/125 "2014-03-25T12:16:06Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Nope. Instead, I propose the following possible reasons: > > - James Randi and now Buffet do not have much of a hold over the mindspace of the psychically-gifted. > - Genuine psychics see no need to obtain a certificate of competence from Randi or Buffet. > - Money might not be the supreme motivitating factor for the genuinely psychically-gifted. > - Psychics are not stupid enough to believe they can save millions of lives with all that money - if it could be done, it would’ve been already. > - Psychics realize that, were they to succeed, it’s far more likely they will get picked up by the CIA and tortured, than they are to receive a billion dollars from a fawning Buffet. Please name and cite one ‘genuine’ psychic. Bonus points if he/she has been tortured by the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/126 "2014-03-25T12:39:45Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Nope. Instead, I propose the following possible reasons: > > - James Randi and now Buffet do not have much of a hold over the mindspace of the psychically-gifted. > - Genuine psychics see no need to obtain a certificate of competence from Randi or Buffet. > - Money might not be the supreme motivitating factor for the genuinely psychically-gifted. > - Psychics are not stupid enough to believe they can save millions of lives with all that money - if it could be done, it would’ve been already. > - Psychics realize that, were they to succeed, it’s far more likely they will get picked up by the CIA and tortured, than they are to receive a billion dollars from a fawning Buffet. Do you even consider the possibility that there might not be any psychics? ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/127 "2014-03-25T13:41:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you even consider the possibility that there might not be any psychics? Depends on how you define “psychic”. I have met a few people that could predict several things about my life, past and future, with astounding accuracy. Information nobody has any business knowing - heck, even I did not and had to verify. If they qualify as psychics, I assure you many exist and would neither know nor care about Randi posing a challenge in the name of science. If you are looking for “psychics” specializing in spoon-bending gimmickry and roulette-prediction type BS, then sure. I consider them all charlatans. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/128 "2014-03-25T13:44:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Please name and cite one ‘genuine’ psychic. Bonus points if he/she has been tortured by the CIA. What kind of cites would satisfy you? COnsider this from Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > [Swami Rama](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Rama) a [yogi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogi) skilled in controlling his heart functions was studied at the [Menninger Foundation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menninger_Foundation) in the spring and fall of 1970, and was alleged by some observers at the foundation to have telekinetically moved a knitting needle twice from a distance of five feet.[[52]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#cite_note-52) Although Swami Rama wore a face-mask and gown to prevent allegations that he moved the needle with his breath or body movements, and air vents in the room had been covered,\*\* at least one physician observer who was present at the time was not convinced and expressed the opinion that air movement was somehow the cause\*\*.[[53]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychokinesis#cite_note-53) HIghlighting mine. Not convinced? Expressed the opinion? Does not sound scientific to me! ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/129 "2014-03-25T13:48:33Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Nope. Instead, I propose the following possible reasons: > > - James Randi and now Buffet do not have much of a hold over the mindspace of the psychically-gifted. > - Genuine psychics see no need to obtain a certificate of competence from Randi or Buffet. > - Money might not be the supreme motivitating factor for the genuinely psychically-gifted. > - Psychics are not stupid enough to believe they can save millions of lives with all that money - if it could be done, it would’ve been already. > - Psychics realize that, were they to succeed, it’s far more likely they will get picked up by the CIA and tortured, than they are to receive a billion dollars from a fawning Buffet. Not a single one of those points make any sense. Buffet’s contest had nothing to do with psychics, it’s just a sports contest, so your first two points are irrelevant. Psychics would be VERY stupid if they didn’t think they could do a lot of good with that money, whether they want anything for themselves or not. And my OP explained how they don’t even need to reveal that they are psychic to win the billion dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/130 "2014-03-25T14:10:47Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Depends on how you define “psychic”. I have met a few people that could predict several things about my life, past and future, with astounding accuracy. Information nobody has any business knowing - heck, even I did not and had to verify. If they qualify as psychics, I assure you many exist and would neither know nor care about Randi posing a challenge in the name of science. Another poster that knows many psychics. Care to name one? edited to add: BTW, how would _you_ know what all of your psychic friends know or care about the Million Dollar Challenge? Are you their manager or agent? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/131 "2014-03-25T14:52:47Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > What kind of cites would satisfy you? Anything that’s testable, verifiable and repeatable. > [@mandala](#): > > HIghlighting mine. Not convinced? Expressed the opinion? Does not sound scientific to me! Not familiar with this Menninger Institute, but yeah… if you have legitimate sources of information that have been independently tested and verified and are repeatable, then I’ll accept those as a source to consider and study. Just please let’s agree to exclude all anecdotal and testimonial that can’t be confirmed in any way. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/132 "2014-03-25T14:53:06Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Not a single one of those points make any sense. Buffet’s contest had nothing to do with psychics, it’s just a sports contest, so your first two points are irrelevant. Psychics would be VERY stupid if they didn’t think they could do a lot of good with that money, whether they want anything for themselves or not. And my OP explained how they don’t even need to reveal that they are psychic to win the billion dollars. You chose to take “just a sports contest” to make this sweeping statement: “Doesn’t this pretty much prove that there are no real psychics?” I say no it does not; regardless of the fact that Buffet himself did not invite or challenge psychics to enter his contest, the fact the prize was not claimed says nothing about psychics one way or the other. The OP does not make much sense to begin with - why the billion-dollar challenge to reach a lame conclusion? Why not the Powerball that runs twice a week? Doesn’t the failure to hit the jackpot each time prove the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/133 "2014-03-25T15:02:06Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > What kind of cites would satisfy you? COnsider this from Wikipedia: Eeee-yah. Let’s just say that if you are making a contentious argument, such as that psychic phenomena exist or that nonwords like ‘gullible’ are in standard dictionaries, citing ANYTHING with “wiki” or “blog” in the title doesn’t count for much. I really love the arguments that run “psychics exist but they are too superior/modest/humble/afraid to have to prove it.” ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/134 "2014-03-25T15:53:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Please name and cite one ‘genuine’ psychic. Bonus points if he/she has been tortured by the CIA. Does [Project MK-Ultra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra) count? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/135 "2014-03-25T15:55:30Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > I have met a few people that could predict several things about my life, past and future, with astounding accuracy. Not so astounding if you know how [cold reading works](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/136 "2014-03-25T16:01:35Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Does [Project MK-Ultra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra) count? Which specific “psychic” are you referring to in that conglomeration? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/137 "2014-03-25T16:33:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which specific “psychic” are you referring to in that conglomeration? Well, for the record, I don’t believe any _genuine_ psychics were ever tortured by the CIA. They would’ve seen 'em coming. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/138 "2014-03-25T16:36:33Z")
So who are the _genuine psychics_ who managed to escape detection? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/139 "2014-03-25T16:46:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So who are the _genuine psychics_ who managed to escape detection? How the hell should I know??? If I were psychic, I could probably tell you. But I’d probably charge you $50 first. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244/140 "2014-03-25T17:08:36Z")
I misunderstood. I thought you were implying that you were aware of the existence of genuine psychics. Also, if you were a genuine psychic, you wouldn’t need my $50. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-buffet-challenge-debunk-psychic-powers-once-and-for-all/684244.md?page=8)