# Does the display of American flags have some "hidden meaning" these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270 "2023-09-17T17:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/61 "2023-09-19T13:52:12Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > Everyone is jumping in and selling militia cos-play to the masses and the masses are eating it up. Now that’s a key observation and very pithily stated. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/62 "2023-09-19T13:59:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Clearly the thin blue line that matters on that flag is ICE defending the southern border from an invasion, an _invasion_ I tell you! of Those People. We are sooo Doomed! > > Sounds like a pretty racist bit of iconography to me. Wait tho, wait a minute. ISTM that the breed of the dog (Chihuahua?) on that flag can’t be specifically a racist, er, dogwhistle about Mexicans, because [this same TBL-plus-dog-and-cross design is also shown with other dog breeds, such as boxers and pitbulls](https://www.colinstore.com/products/boxer-police-dog-thin-blue-line-christian-cross-flag-trl288f1). And also with just plain [Jesus.](https://www.colinstore.com/products/jesus-christian-thin-blue-line-flag-trl165f) So I think T\_O\_W\_P’s joking interpretation of the iconography actually comes the closest: namely, “Behind the Thin Blue Line flag stands a devout Christian, possibly additionally guarded by a watchdog and/or attack dog of such-and-such a breed.” Gee, the more you think about that, the more the multiplicity of messages comes across as rather pathetically paranoid. “Beware of Dog! And Jesus Saves! And I Support The Police!! (help I’m so scared somebody please protect meeeeeee!!!)” ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/63 "2023-09-19T14:04:10Z")
You guys are overthinking it. It’s merely a collection of things she loves (with that dog, I can pretty much guarantee the owner is a woman, probably of the Karen (yes I said KAREN) type. She loves Jesus, Yorkies, and her protectors, the Police. In that order. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/64 "2023-09-19T14:22:36Z")
The flag does not belong to MAGAts. This is ridiculous. I fly it on some National Holidays. I’m a vet as was my Dad. I will not surrender the Stars & Stripes to the assholes. My neighbors flew the public service flag. He was a NYC Cop and she was a paramedic. As far as I could tell, neither was MAGA. MAGA are rarely shy about sharing. Across the street are two houses, Father and Son. Both Marines. Both fly the flag every day. The son is a Trumper sadly. but otherwise a nice enough neighbor. Next to them is a Hispanic family. They also fly the flag 24x7x365. They are more liberal than I am. Next to me on the other side, fly the flag for holidays and a Ukraine flag since the invasion started in their front window. Not MAGAs, no clue how they vote though. New couple on the corner fly a flag 24x7x365 without a light on it. The old sailor in me has considered letting them know that is actually incorrect but I have refrained. No signs they’re MAGAts. But it is possible. Don’t read too much into flags. The first responders flags rarely seem to be MAGAts. The American Flag is as likely to be a Vet or Vet family as a MAGAt. So please don’t help take the flag from them. Thin Blue Line flags, I just don’t recall seeing around here. But could be a police family. * * * * * * * * * ETA: I almost forgot. While I was living in a retirement community for a little while between houses, almost every house had a flag up. Maybe 20% also had pro-Trump and maybe 15% had either Pro-Biden or flags for Pro-diversity. The American Flag was not a dog-whistle for anything but basic senior patriotism. There were people that lives through WWII and often vets of Korea or Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/65 "2023-09-19T14:24:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “Beware of Dog! And Jesus Saves! And I Support The Police!! (help I’m so scared somebody please protect meeeeeee!!!)” It’s the Holy Trinity! The Companion, The Son, and The Officer. Modern problems require modern deities. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/66 "2023-09-19T15:06:50Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The flag does not belong to MAGAts. This is ridiculous. The point is that MAGAts themselves have embraced the notion that the flag “belongs” to them. Nobody but them is truly patriotic, no display of patriotic sentiment by anybody who disagrees with them is worthy of respect, nobody but them is a “real American”. Nobody here AFAICT is saying that that view’s okay, just that it’s a de facto reality in many communities. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I fly it on some National Holidays. I’m a vet as was my Dad. I will not surrender the Stars & Stripes to the assholes. Hey, I don’t disagree with your sincere assertion of your equal right to patriotic display to express your own version of patriotism that isn’t MAGA-aligned. I’m just saying, don’t shoot the messenger. If somebody has encountered a strong and widespread association of flag display with MAGA fanaticism, they are not blameworthy for regarding flag display in general with an increased degree of fear and suspicion. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Across the street are two houses, Father and Son. Both Marines. Both fly the flag every day. The son is a Trumper sadly. but otherwise a nice enough neighbor. Well, one of the nice things about being a middle-class conventional-acting straight white guy is that you don’t have to worry about Trumper neighbors possibly regarding you with dangerous levels of hostility. But not everybody is so fortunate. Tell you what: try flying, say, a pride flag or a Black Lives Matter flag along with your American flag and see if your Trumper neighbor is still as nice. If he is, then maybe give him a pride flag or BLM flag of his own and encourage him to fly it. That would actualy accomplish something in the way of decoupling flag display from bigotry. If we don’t want bigots “taking over” shared symbols of our nation, then what we need to push back against are the actions of the bigots. Not the entirely reasonable and prudent increase of distrust that the victims of bigotry feel regarding the display of those symbols. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Don’t read too much into flags. The trouble is that for many people, reading too little into flags can potentially get them killed. I’m not gonna scold anybody for cautiously bearing in mind that flag-wavers might well be MAGAt’s, given how many MAGAts are ardently promoting the association of flag-waving with MAGAtry. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > The American Flag is as likely to be a Vet or Vet family as a MAGAt. So please don’t help take the flag from them. How about you go first? If you want to resist the creeping association of patriotic displays with vicious bigotry, then hang out that pride or BLM flag—or even a Biden lawn sign—with your American flag, to proclaim clearly your own commitment to combining patriotism with anti-bigotry. ISTM that a straight white guy just hanging out an American flag in neighborhoods where MAGAts also hang out American flags is coming across more as protective mimicry than as standing up for inclusive patriotism. Yeah, okay, in the privacy and safety of your own brain you’re anti-MAGAt and you don’t intend your flag display as an endorsement of MAGAtry. Good. That’s nice. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/67 "2023-09-19T15:25:20Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I will not surrender the Stars & Stripes to the assholes. This. I bought a flag way back in the 1970’s, to carry at protest marches. I wore the poor thing out sometime in 2017. I bought another one. It’s my flag too, damn it. It’s my country too. I’m not ceding it to any specific political position. I’m definitely not ceding it to fascists. If somebody else is flying the American flag – I look at the context. In some contexts, yes, it’s worrisome. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/68 "2023-09-19T15:58:27Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ISTM that a straight white guy just hanging out an American flag in neighborhoods where MAGAts also hang out American flags is coming across more as protective mimicry than as standing up for inclusive patriotism. Yeah, okay, in the privacy and safety of your own brain you’re anti-MAGAt and you don’t intend your flag display as an endorsement of MAGAtry. Good. That’s nice. Without intended to pile on to @What_Exit specifically & personally, I think @Kimstu has nailed the situation in the redder counties of the blue states and in the red states. The WWII generation of calm sane unassuming patriots are mostly dead. The Korean era vets are mostly not living in suburbia; they’re living in old folks’ homes or are dead. I to am a military veteran, although not a military retiree. I would not fly a US flag without also flying some sort of adjunct flag to clearly state my opposition to the MAGAt-takeover of the US flag. Precisely because as a white guy with a short haircut I’d be assumed by almost everyone who saw my US flag that I was a MAGAt. It’s bad enough they’re as numerous as they are without me running up the enemy’s score by inadvertently masquerading as one. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/69 "2023-09-19T16:03:10Z")
Maybe as MAGAts are a small minority in NJ I see things differently. We’re a purple county in a blue state. But it sure seems like a lot of you have surrendered the US Flag to the racist idiots. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/70 "2023-09-19T16:07:01Z")
I’m in an extremely blue county in a very blue state. I certainly don’t assume that people who fly the flag here are MAGAts. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/71 "2023-09-19T16:12:00Z")
I didn’t ask whether anyone was surrendering the US flag to MAGA. Instead, I was asking about an apparent increase in flag display in my neighborhood. The increase has been relatively recent, and did not accompany any recent turnover in homeownership. ISTM people posting about their personal choice whether or not to display the flag is somewhat off topic. Unless you are saying that you have chosen to display your flag more often just recently - which might be an explanation for what I see. But I did not read the responses as saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/72 "2023-09-19T16:36:34Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > But it sure seems like a lot of you have surrendered the US Flag to the racist idiots. The US Flag remains the flag of the United States of America, and in and of itself it simply symbolizes the USA. It does not mean “MAGA”. However, there is a difference between the entity “_The Flag_” and the act, “_Flying the Flag Over One’s Personal Property_” (or more specifically “_Flying the Flag Over One’s Personal Property At Times Other Than National Holidays_”). To me, originally coming from a cultural context outside the US, “_Flying the Flag Over One’s Personal Property At Times Other Than National Holidays_” (hereafter FTFOOPPATOTNH for short) has _always_ been an activity reserved for people who are very nationalistic. I recognize that this was not always true in the US, and that run of the mill patriots who were not xenophobic nationalists also partook in FTFOOPPATOTNH. But I guess that’s why it doesn’t bother me to “surrender” the act of FTFOOPPATOTNH to racist idiots. And I don’t think that surrendering FTFOOPPATOTNH requires surrendering the flag itself. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/73 "2023-09-19T16:37:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > FTFOOPPATOTNH I do like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/74 "2023-09-19T16:38:47Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > But it sure seems like a lot of you have surrendered the US Flag to the racist idiots. Well, what, exactly, are you doing with regard to symbolic patriotism display that isn’t “surrendering the US flag to the racist idiots”? If you’re engaging in the same actions that the racist idiots espouse and promote as a deliberate assertion of their racist idiot ideology, without taking any accompanying action that clearly distinguishes you from the racist idiots, then how is a reasonable observer supposed to be able to tell that you’re not one of the racist idiots? You seem to be trying simultaneously to visibly virtue-signal your patriotism and invisibly virtue-signal your anti-bigotry. And you think that observers should be taking the latter on trust even though all they can actually see is the former. In fact, if they’re wary about taking it on trust, then you complain that they’re “helping take the flag from” you and “surrendering” it “to the racist idiots”. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Unless you are saying that you have chosen to display your flag more often just recently - which might be an explanation for what I see. Personally, in my (blueish) neighborhood in my (reddish) region of a (blue) state, I’ve seen a lot more flag display over the past several years, both accompanied by the pride/BLM/“We Believe” liberal-type symbols and accompanied by the Trump/Gadsden/etc. MAGA-type symbols. Hard to say if there’s been a change in the number or frequency of US flag-flying displays unaccompanied by other symbols. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/75 "2023-09-19T16:39:59Z")
I saw the flags come back first with Desert Storm and then with 9/11. I don’t see more today than in 2002 for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/76 "2023-09-19T16:40:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > To me, originally coming from a cultural context outside the US, “_Flying the Flag Over One’s Personal Property At Times Other Than National Holidays_” (hereafter FTFOOPPATOTNH for short) has _always_ been an activity reserved for people who are very nationalistic. Also non-USian, but I’ve never heard of a restriction about only flying a flag on a national holiday. Sounds like an odd marker to me? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/77 "2023-09-19T16:43:09Z")
Permanent, lit up flag poles were fairly uncommon for private homes. Very common for businesses. Over the last 3+ decades there has been a slow growth in the number of lit up flag poles at private residences. **But there was never a restriction.** ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/78 "2023-09-19T16:43:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I saw the flags come back first with Desert Storm and then with 9/11. I don’t see more today than in 2002 for sure. I saw what seemed to be quite a dip in conventional flag-waving after the election of Obama. Gadsden flags and other more militant iconography seemed to increase, though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/79 "2023-09-19T16:44:05Z")
I actually saw an increase in NJ along with Hope Flags. I guess the region really matters. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/80 "2023-09-19T16:45:45Z")
As for the “thin blue line” issue, it’s arisen in Canada as well. Calgary police officers wore a Canadian flag version on their uniforms, as an assertion of their role to ensure laws are obeyed. And then promptly refused to follow a lawful order from the Calgary Police Commission, directing that the patch could not be worn on uniforms. Protecting society by disobeying the law. > **[Calgary officers told to defy order to remove thin blue line patch | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-police-thin-blue-line-1.6404271)** > > The Calgary Police Association has sent a letter to its members stating that they need to collectively take a stand against a police commission direction that officers no longer wear the thin blue line patch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270.md?page=5)