# Does the display of American flags have some "hidden meaning" these days? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 17, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270 "2023-09-17T17:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/121 "2023-09-20T19:47:39Z")
I don’t run my life according to their preferences, no. I do make sure I’m not inadvertently shilling for their ideas though. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/122 "2023-09-20T19:58:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, some asshole white supremacists. They arent going top tell me what clothes i can wear or flags I can fly, or what masks I can or can not wear etc. Do you really run your life around their preferences? This is like discussions of language usage when people insist that words mean what an individual speaker subjectively _intends_ them to mean. Communication doesn’t work that way. It involves two or more people, and it depends upon a _shared_ understanding of the meaning of words - or flags. Communication requires that words have _objective_ meaning. Objective meaning is established by consensus across the community of users, and with language (even when meaning is evolving) spontaneous consensus-forming across the community tends to happen quickly. I see no reason why flags should be any different. It makes no difference that we might not _like_ the new consensus on what something means. If we ignore that consensus, we will simply fail to communicate what we intended. There are certainly prescriptive efforts to “reclaim” words. But the reclaiming has to become widely established across the community before you can expect anyone to realize the possibility (without explanation) that you might be using it to convey the reclaimed meaning. Likewise flags. Whether you like it or not, ostentatiously flying the US flag may carry the implication (depending on context) that you are MAGA. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/123 "2023-09-20T20:04:06Z")
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master — that’s all.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/124 "2023-09-20T20:05:07Z")
This is akin to saying you should be able to wear a swastika and walk through Jerusalem unmolested because YOU are using the swastika as it was way before the Nazis co-opted it (and people should recognize if it is reversed or not). I think the people of Jerusalem have every right to be upset no matter your protestations that you really are using it in a different context and it is not your fault that some assholes used it in a bad way. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/125 "2023-09-20T20:07:51Z")
You actually just put the American Flag on par with the swastika. Maybe a little over the top? Especially as in vast areas of the US, the flag is not co-opted by MAGAts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/126 "2023-09-20T20:08:43Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You actually just put the American Flag on par with the swastika. Where did I say that? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/127 "2023-09-20T20:10:25Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You actually just put the American Flag on par with the swastika. Come on, that’s a silly criticism. The swastika is a deliberately extreme example just to highlight the principle that we cannot subjectively choose what meaning is conveyed by the symbols we use. Symbols have _objective_ meaning. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/128 "2023-09-20T20:12:37Z")
But half the posters here are ascribing a meaning to the American Flag that doesn’t exist. Especially in blue states. I found his post completely over the top to the point of being useless. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/129 "2023-09-20T20:14:04Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > But half the posters here are ascribing a meaning to the American Flag that doesn’t exist. That’s an empirical question. I think it very much depends on context. You cannot seriously claim that if you see a very large US flag on the back of a pickup truck it doesn’t tell you unambiguously the driver is MAGA. A very large flag outside a house? Less clear, it depends on the area. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/130 "2023-09-20T20:14:21Z")
We have long, long since left the notion in the thread to be ONLY the US flag to modifications and when and where and how often it is displayed and the context it is displayed in. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/131 "2023-09-20T20:15:57Z")
That example would be one likely to be a MAGA person. But flying off a Flag Pole or the front of the house? No, I strongly don’t believe so. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/132 "2023-09-20T20:17:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is akin to saying you should be able to wear a swastika and walk through Jerusalem unmolested because YOU are using the swastika as it was way before the Nazis co-opted it (and people should recognize if it is reversed or not). Nonsense. Look, you dont give in to a tiny minority of assholes. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Where did I say that? Post 123. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/133 "2023-09-20T20:18:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Post 123. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/134 "2023-09-20T20:19:15Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > But flying off a Flag Pole or the front of the house? No, I strongly don’t believe so. I think we’re kind of at a tipping point with this. I think there’s a dynamic that on one side, the MAGAs are trying to coopt ostentatious flag flying as “their” thing. And there’s a risk that non-MAGA people may start to become reluctant to do so for risk of being misinterpreted, so they “cede the semantic ground”. I would certainly feel that if I flew a US flag, I’d want to fly a pride flag alongside to be sure it wasn’t misunderstood. That’s an option for me, because I’m in a very liberal town. In many areas, the problem with that is that it makes you a target. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/135 "2023-09-20T20:19:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think we’re kind of at a tipping point with this. I think there’s a dynamic that on one side, the MAGAs are trying to coopt ostentatious flag flying as “their” thing. And there’s a risk that non-MAGA people may start to become reluctant to do so for risk of being misinterpreted, so they “cede the semantic ground” I wonder if they’ll go for the rainbow pride flag next. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/136 "2023-09-20T20:20:25Z")
And there needs to be a push back then. That flag belongs to all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/137 "2023-09-20T20:21:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, you dont give in to a tiny minority of assholes. _You_ may not. Others may not give a crap about flying the flag and so they may not care, and so eventually it might just be you and the assholes. > [@Riemann](#): > > Come on, that’s a silly criticism. The swastika is a deliberately extreme example just to highlight the principle that we cannot subjectively choose what meaning is conveyed by the symbols we use. Symbols have _objective_ meaning. Now this is even sillier. Symbols do not have objective meaning. Nothing does. Not even words. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/138 "2023-09-20T20:21:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I wonder if they’ll go for the rainbow next. Who will go for the rainbow? The Rainbow Flag is unambiguous about what it means to convey. It is not co-opted from something else where there are two sides to its meaning. It’d be interesting to see conservatives flying the rainbow flag to make it their own. Not sure how well that would work. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/139 "2023-09-20T20:21:33Z")
Not an American, of course, but I’ve seen similar issues raised with the Maple Leaf. My reaction is like What\_Exit? and DrDeth: If you say you can only fly your nation’s flag with some other symbol to make it clear that you’re not “X”, then you’ve accepted that your national flag means “X”, and you need some sort of asterisk to show “but not me”. I just don’t buy that. When I see the Maple Leaf flying over Parliament, it doesn’t mean that Parliament is an example of “X”. (“X” being a stand-in for whatever unpopular group is trying to co-opt it.) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270/140 "2023-09-20T20:21:40Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > And there needs to be a push back then. I’m totally on board with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-display-of-american-flags-have-some-hidden-meaning-these-days/990270.md?page=8)