# Does the downplaying of Christmas strike anyone else as a bit patronizing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965 "2015-11-19T07:22:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/41 "2015-11-19T21:50:48Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Just because one culture has been dominant doesn’t mean that its correct, or should continue to happen. I fully believe that it is more offensive, patronizing, whatever you want to call it for Christmas to dominant this season. It never should have gotten this far and now that there is enough non-Christians to push back, the balance is being restored. That’s not an attack on Christians, that’s pulling back the unfair advantage Christians have been getting. Which is exactly what I’m saying. Convincing the dominant culture it’s more inclusive to say or do other things under the guise they’re being accepting is bad because it preserves that dominant culture while allowing its participants to pretend they’re not forcing their culture to remain dominant. It’s all very dishonest, and the only solution to achieving true inclusiveness is the wholesale dissolution of all holiday seasons in general. I view this half-hearted attempt at inclusiveness a barrier to this. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/42 "2015-11-19T21:59:47Z")
Nope, the “War on Christmas” doesn’t bother me in the least. This whole Christian appropriation of Saturnalia really sticks in my craw though. Remember the reason for the season: axial tilt. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/43 "2015-11-19T22:09:20Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > When I got divorced, it happened to be right at the end of January and there were hearts and sappy shit everywhere. And it hurt, it did, hearing stupid love songs, and stupid diamond ads, and even the stupid M&M’s were finding Tru Wuv. It hurt. > > But I couldn’t expect the rest of the world to stop just because I was hurting. That would be irrational, and while I’m doing my best to be logical, I should admit that I believe in Love, and I’m happy that other people feel loved. I want everyone to feel loved, even if I don’t and that’s, yes, ok, also kind of irrational. > > That meant the onus was on me to flip my brain to another channel when the diamond ads come on. The rest of the world wasn’t doing anything wrong, being happy and excited and in love. It would be irrational to wish them to be any other way. > > This is a personal problem, is what I’m saying. It’s immaterial whether I like them or not. I actually really love Halloween, and actually rather like some aspects of the current season. I still avoid mentioning them openly to other people and make every effort to pretend in my daily life that no holidays are coming up so as not to accidentally ostracize someone. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/44 "2015-11-20T01:05:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Well the hell are you from? New Year’s Eve is the biggest party night of the year. If you watch TV you see New Years fireworks and celebrations all around the world. New Years is to booze makers what Christmas is to retailers. And the Christmas ads have started already. Yes, that might have been the most surreal thing I read on this board yet. Also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a non-Christian person complaining about Christmas. Seems to be mostly internal strife–it’s not Christmassy enough or there’s not enough Jesus. I have never actually heard someone say they felt alienated by Christmas. I think most people who don’t celebrate it are happy enough to get on with it. But hey, considering how stressful a holiday it is, can’t really blame people for looking for a reason to bitch about it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/45 "2015-11-20T01:15:22Z")
My Jewish math teacher in seventh grade was very vocal in her opposition to overt “Merry Christmas” expressions and everything else Jesus related, like kids being forced to sing and hear songs about baby Jesus during the holiday concert. Of course she wasn’t popular for this stance, but I admired her for being brave enough to voice a minority opinion. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/46 "2015-11-20T01:50:02Z")
I know a couple of Jews who don’t like to be told “merry Christmas”, especially from their employer or other authority. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/47 "2015-11-20T01:52:23Z")
It hurts them most to see their kids not being part of the Christmas revelry. I’ll believe that a lot more than adults telling me they’re offended by Christmas greetings. That is so much BS to me. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/48 "2015-11-20T01:57:52Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > You’re conflating two separate movements. > > 1. Atheists [. . .] > > 2. Conservative Christians [. . .] Thanks, **SpoilerVirgin**. Yeah, that clarifies things for me. ( Hey, I knew that! :smack: 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/49 "2015-11-20T02:00:40Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Basically, I would much prefer if the season was **dismantled** , because it doesn’t matter if the holidays are secular, religious, or otherwise. We still expect the people around us who don’t share our values to be excited or otherwise interested that it’s a particular period of time they may or may not care about. I know of a great movie that you want to see. It’s called “The Grinch who Stole Christmas.” If you aren’t big in to holidays, that’s fine. But you live in a society, and “celebrating holidays” is basically one of the defining things that societies do. If you don’t want to be around people doing people things, go to a cabin in the woods or something. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/50 "2015-11-20T02:19:51Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > As for “downplaying Chanukah” (which is how I spell it - like Angelica on _Rugrats_ says, 'Not Hanukkah, Chanukah - you have to _ghch_ when you say it"), isn’t it one of Judaism’s “minor” holidays, and its attention comes from its proximity to Christmas? Yes, this. However you spell Chanukah (try this: חֲנֻכָּה), it was historically a minor holiday, because the story isn’t Biblical. (That is, not in the Jewish Old Testament, which doesn’t include the Apocrypha). The story is told in one of the apocryphal Books of Maccabees. The real biggie Jewish holidays are Rosh Hashana (Jewish New Year) and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), which are very serious and solemn, literally Holy Days, not festive at all. Like you say, modern חֲנֻכָּה got its current big mojo from its proximity to Christmas, and more particularly, from being grossly over-commercialized. In this, it is a very American thing. I don’t know how חֲנֻכָּה is currently celebrated elsewhere in the world. (Anybody?) And how about Christmas too? From all I’ve ever heard, that was also a very minor holiday in Christian history. The Bible doesn’t make a big deal of birthdays in general, and some Christian and Christian-like churches completely disavow it. (Jehovah’s Witnesses, in particular, but I think there are others.) Easter is the major important Christian Holy Day. It was American Over-The-Top Commercialism that made Christmas the festive potlatch that we see today. חֲנֻכָּה simply followed in the footsteps of that. ETA: > [@even\_sven](#): > > If you don’t want to be around people doing people things, go to a cabin in the woods or something. Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all! I wish I had a cabin in the woods like that! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/51 "2015-11-20T02:25:53Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I already have my reservations for both the party and the nearby hotel room. A hotel room near the party is a great idea! Usually we just screw in the linen closet. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/52 "2015-11-20T04:48:40Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Yes, this. However you spell Chanukah (try this: חֲנֻכָּה), it was historically a minor holiday, because the story isn’t Biblical. (That is, not in the Jewish Old Testament, which doesn’t include the Apocrypha). The story is told in one of the apocryphal Books of Maccabees. The real biggie Jewish holidays are Rosh Hashana (Jewish New Year) and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), which are very serious and solemn, literally Holy Days, not festive at all. OTOH, Purim sounds like a whole lot of fun, even if it’s not one of the High Holy Days. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/53 "2015-11-20T05:11:49Z")
I’m sorry. This thread was in error. You know your ideas are off the rails when you begin writing a long post that ends with advocating the mass simultaneous suicide of the human race as the ultimate good act because allowing a group of beings that can feel suffering the opportunity to feel more suffering is immoral. That’s a wretched idea that I can’t believe I actually came up with and almost posted. I have problems going to insane ideas when I get the idea in my head that a single, solitary person somewhere in the world may be the slightest bit hurt by something. After writing that post I mentioned, it became clear that pretty much everything I’ve said in this thread is really dumb. I’m sorry. I’m serious that I never knew that New Years was a big thing, though. Like, I knew “New Years parties” were a thing, but they never struck me as any grander than, like, 4th of July parties which I consider to be super minor as well. A convenient excuse to meet up with your friends but nothing more meaningful than that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/54 "2015-11-20T08:12:43Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > It hurts them most to see their kids not being part of the Christmas revelry. I’ll believe that a lot more than adults telling me they’re offended by Christmas greetings. That is so much BS to me. Eh, it’s not common, but it’s real. By the way, I am Jewish, and I think most Jews are okay with random Christians who don’t know them wishing them “Merry Christmas”, but some aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/55 "2015-11-20T08:46:30Z")
_ **You will have an enjoyable Saturnalia or else!** _ :mad: Or else you won’t. It’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/56 "2015-11-20T16:14:45Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Is there ANYTHING that doesn’t piss you off? The low price of Steam games > [@bump](#): > > Why, because the US is something like 71% Christian, and 65% white? That seems pretty dominant, population-wise. That’s nice. The right wingers don’t have to be dicks about it though. Some of us like Hanukkah or Diwali too ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/57 "2015-11-20T16:49:54Z")
I think the true issue is that there are those who perceive a diminishment of traditional Christian preference when people offer non-denominational greetings like “Happy Holidays”. While I appreciate Hanukkah greetings I’ve accepted that I’ll probably get Christmas greetings, even from people who know I’m not Christian. What sort of tweeks me off are Easter greetings, but that’s just because I remember the Easter Sunday when I was a 2nd grader and three 4th graders beat me up because I killed Jesus. That must have been some inspiring sermon the pastor gave at that year’s St. Raymond’s Easter youth service. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/58 "2015-11-20T16:53:40Z")
All I know is I wouldn’t even make eye contact with a second-grader who’d killed a man. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/59 "2015-11-20T16:56:08Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I remember the Easter Sunday when I was a 2nd grader and three 4th graders beat me up because I killed Jesus. You killed the gardener? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965/60 "2015-11-20T17:17:22Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > You killed the gardener? The gardener liked to watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-downplaying-of-christmas-strike-anyone-else-as-a-bit-patronizing/737965.md?page=4)