# Does the existence of prison rape reduce crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 4, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586 "2015-11-04T04:03:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/1 "2015-11-04T04:03:11Z")
I know that prison life isn’t exactly a weekend at the beach, but the concept doesn’t seem _that_ bad, except for one eventuality that the media, internet and Hollywood tell me occurs with high frequency… prison rape. I have no idea about the real stats on how many prisoners actually are raped in American prisons, but I assume that the threat of it must cause some would-be prisoners to reconsider and abandon their criminal plans. And if it really is that common, I assume that it also helps to reduce the recividism rate. So as repulsive as the idea is, does the existence of prison rape have a significant impact on crime reduction? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/2 "2015-11-04T04:20:31Z")
There’s not a lot of evidence to show that criminals consider any consequences before they act. They are generally the type that only looks at the benefit side of a cost-benefit analysis. ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/3 "2015-11-04T04:26:04Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I know that prison life isn’t exactly a weekend at the beach, but the concept doesn’t seem _that_ bad, except for one eventuality that the media, internet and Hollywood tell me occurs with high frequency… prison rape. I have no idea about the real stats on how many prisoners actually are raped in American prisons, but I assume that the threat of it must cause some would-be prisoners to reconsider and abandon their criminal plans. And if it really is that common, I assume that it also helps to reduce the recividism rate. So as repulsive as the idea is, does the existence of prison rape have a significant impact on crime reduction? Oddly enough, I was reading an article about Bonnie and Clyde recently. The biographer said that the first time Clyde was in jail, he was raped and that this experience changed him deeply and he made up his mind that he was never going back to jail again. Keep in mind, it didn’t deter him from committing further crimes just that he wasn’t ever going back to jail again. This resulted in him being much more ruthless and really up the game in terms of weapons he used so law enforcement at the time was outgunned until they matched his arsenal. So in the situation with Clyde, this caused him to make a commitment to stay out of prison, but not reduce his recidivism. The article didn’t talk about if he was aware of the risk of rape if he went to jail to begin with or not. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/4 "2015-11-04T05:34:58Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I know that prison life isn’t exactly a weekend at the beach, but the concept doesn’t seem _that_ bad, except for one eventuality that the media, internet and Hollywood tell me occurs with high frequency… prison rape. I have no idea about the real stats on how many prisoners actually are raped in American prisons, but I assume that the threat of it must cause some would-be prisoners to reconsider and abandon their criminal plans. And if it really is that common, I assume that it also helps to reduce the recividism rate. So as repulsive as the idea is, does the existence of prison rape have a significant impact on crime reduction? Are you including those prison rapes as crimes? They’d have to deter more crimes than they commit in order to make a net reduction in the number of crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/5 "2015-11-04T13:44:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are you including those prison rapes as crimes? They’d have to deter more crimes than they commit in order to make a net reduction in the number of crimes. I hear you, but I think it’s clear that we’re talking about it’s impact on crimes outside of prison. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/6 "2015-11-04T14:24:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are you including those prison rapes as crimes? They’d have to deter more crimes than they commit in order to make a net reduction in the number of crimes. That’s a really good point! We don’t typically see prison rape as something that affects the local crime rate since it isn’t visible to and does not impact us outside the prison. The OP could be seen as similar to asking whether murdering members of organized crime gangs reduces crime or whether burning down the homes of child molesters reduces crime. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/7 "2015-11-04T15:46:42Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I hear you, but I think it’s clear that we’re talking about it’s impact on crimes outside of prison. That is what I thought you meant in the OP, but I don’t think that’s the proper way of looking at it. When society locks people up, we take on certain obligations regarding their health and safety. If we take the attitude that prison rapes don’t count as crimes, that we will punish people as perpetrators but not protect them as victims, I think that would engender more contempt than respect for the justice system. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/8 "2015-11-04T16:03:31Z")
I suspect people coming out of prison in worse shape than they went in results in an increase in crime. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/9 "2015-11-04T17:39:09Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I suspect people coming out of prison in worse shape than they went in results in an increase in crime. This. There have been countless studies about recidivism rates among juveniles who are tried and sentenced as adults. The harsher the punishment, the higher the rate of recidivism. In fact, even simply certifying a juvenile as an adult (but still punishing them as a juvenile), increases the risk of recidivism. It is ironic that many would argue that you must be “tough on crime” to protect future citizens. But at least for juveniles, that calculus actually backfires. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/10 "2015-11-04T17:56:05Z")
> [@llcoolbj77](#): > > There have been countless studies about recidivism rates among juveniles who are tried and sentenced as adults. The harsher the punishment, the higher the rate of recidivism. In fact, even simply certifying a juvenile as an adult (but still punishing them as a juvenile), increases the risk of recidivism. > > It is ironic that many would argue that you must be “tough on crime” to protect future citizens. But at least for juveniles, that calculus actually backfires. Do your studies hold constant the nature and number of crimes committed for juveniles who go to adult prison vs. those who go to reform school? IOW I have no trouble believing that a juvenile murderer who goes to Sing Sing is going to recidivate more often than a juvenile car thief who gets a suspended sentence. But I don’t know that it is the difference in sentencing that did it. IYSWIM. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/11 "2015-11-04T18:03:26Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I suspect people coming out of prison in worse shape than they went in results in an increase in crime. Then consider the fact that the vast majority of the incarcerated will eventually leave prison. Very few, around 5% IIRC, are in for life with no parole or sentenced to death. I’m astonished that many people seem to want incarceration to be as brutal as possible, given that most inmates will rejoin society. We treat them like animals in prison, make their lives very difficult as ex-cons, and then complain about recidivism?! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/12 "2015-11-04T21:13:03Z")
Best hard figures I could come up with - > [@](#): > > In 2011-2012, an estimated 4 percent of state and federal prison inmates and 3.2 percent of jail inmates reported experiencing one or more incidents of sexual victimization by another inmate or facility staff in the preceding 12 months or since admission to the facility [Cite.](http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri1112.pdf) Note that this includes rape or sexual victimization by prison staff as well as by other inmates. Females are more at risk than males, those who are underweight or morbidly obese are at higher risk, and gay/bisexual/transgender are at much higher risk. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-existence-of-prison-rape-reduce-crime/736586/13 "2015-11-04T21:32:49Z")
I think another question that might be worth pursuing is: if you are [being regularly raped in prison, do you still masturbate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=774192)?