# Does the external world exist?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-external-world-exist/622803>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [May 23, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-external-world-exist/622803 "2012-05-23T07:39:29Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 55

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**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-external-world-exist/622803/55 "2012-05-30T04:35:29Z")

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> [@Trinopus](#):
>
> I’m driving around, using a map, because I can’t truly know the territory. But the map is good enough. It is built up, over time, from many observations of the real territory. I know it isn’t real, but it works to get me around.

[The map is not the territory.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation#.22The_map_is_not_the_territory.22)

> [@TATG](#):
>
> So state your position.

I don’t know my position. As mentioned in the OP -

**The Hamster King** posted this:

> [@My take on God, if anybody cares.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/244):
>
> The fact that you and I live our lives _as though_ the external world exists does not prove that it does.

And I replied with this:

> [@My take on God, if anybody cares.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-take-on-god-if-anybody-cares/607372/245):
>
> Speak for yourself. You and I DO NOT live our lives as though the external world exists. You live your life as though the external world exists. I live my life as though you and other minds live their life _as though_ the external world exists.

That is the closest I can get, at least as of now, to stating my position.

> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#):
>
> It sounds like you’re trying to say that you don’t believe that the material world exists. Only different consciousnesses. Is that correct?

Yes, I don’t believe that the external world exists.

> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#):
>
> I’m with Plato. People are just sad abstractions who cannot but fail to measure up to the Divine. Fuck them and the reality they rode in on.

Yes. Yes. That’s the spirit!

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