Does the fact that so many people believe in God mean anything?

[panaccione]

@Czarcasm

Placebos work sometimes in some situations for some types of ailments, and there are real reasons why if you care to look just below the serface.

Well don’t hold out on me. Show me what you got.

@Czarcasm

Faith in what? Are you talking about faith backed by evidence, or blind faith?

In my case, faith in soul. I’m sure that classifies as blind faith.

Also, from my POV, reality and faith go hand in hand due to the mystery of it all. Would it be considered evidence if we could logically conclude that we cannot fully grasp the universe? If so, does that imply faith?

[Acsenray]

@panaccione

Also, from my POV, reality and faith go hand in hand due to the mystery of it all. Would it be considered evidence if we could logically conclude that we cannot fully grasp the universe? If so, does that imply faith?

No, it doesn’t.

[Czarcasm]

@panaccione

In my case, faith in soul. I’m sure that classifies as blind faith

When you can come up with a “soul” to have faith in, then we can address the rightness or wrongness of faith in such an entity, o.k.?

[panaccione]

@Acsenray

No, when the answer evades you, you defer reaching a conclusion. There are plenty of things you’ll never know. There’s no reason to “trust your gut” on questions like these.

That goes against our very nature. I don’t think there’s a single person that hasn’t pondered the thought of what happens after death. Some say there’s an afterlife, others say we cease to exist. I don’t see anyone saying “I don’t know” and never thinking twice about it.

[GIGObuster]

@panaccione

This is true. But what would you say about the “placebo effect?” People take a sugar pill and get better. Pure faith. This is what I’m talking about when I’m asking what studies have been done to test faith.

Not sure I would want to go there as there are studies reporting that the placebo effect is not as important or even non-existent.

Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo...

CONCLUSIONS:

We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. Although placebos had no significant effects on objective or binary outcomes, they had possible small benefits in studies with continuous subjective outcomes and for the treatment of pain. Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos.

[QuickSilver]

@panaccione

In my case, faith in soul. I’m sure that classifies as blind faith.

You’ve successfully demonstrated that you have faith in something for which you have to evidence. Experiment over. You are right. Faith proven.

@panaccione

Also, from my POV, reality and faith go hand in hand due to the mystery of it all. Would it be considered evidence if we could logically conclude that we cannot fully grasp the universe? If so, does that imply faith?

The fact that we admit to not understanding the universe has no impact on the universe. It doesn’t care whether we understand its mysteries, nor does our lack of knowledge change reality. I’m not sure how faith fits in here.

[Czarcasm]

@panaccione

That goes against our very nature. I don’t think there’s a single person that hasn’t pondered the thought of what happens after death. Some say there’s an afterlife, others say we cease to exist. I don’t see anyone saying “I don’t know” and never thinking twice about it.

1. I’ve known plenty of people who say just that, but
2. That’s not what is being said here. The “…and never thinking twice about it” isn’t even implied by Acsenray’s reply. It’s more like “We don’t know, but we’re going to keep looking. We may never find out, but we’re not going to plug in unevidenced assumptions in the meantime.”

[QuickSilver]

@panaccione

That goes against our very nature. I don’t think there’s a single person that hasn’t pondered the thought of what happens after death. Some say there’s an afterlife, others say we cease to exist. I don’t see anyone saying “I don’t know” and never thinking twice about it.

Do you spend time pondering the state of your existance before you were born?

[simster]

@panaccione

That goes against our very nature. I don’t think there’s a single person that hasn’t pondered the thought of what happens after death. Some say there’s an afterlife, others say we cease to exist. I don’t see anyone saying “I don’t know” and never thinking twice about it.

I am comfortable saying “I don’t know” to things that one can never know - as far as speculating/discussing the ‘possibility’ of an afterlife - that can be an interesting topic of conversation - but to make it more than that - say, as a reward or punishment for following a particular religion - is where the problem is.

As it stands - there is ZERO evidence of any form of ‘afterlife’ -

[Czarcasm]

@QuickSilver

Do you spend time pondering the state of your existance before you were born?

And on that note, shouldn’t you spend some time pondering the state of your current existence? Or have you got that one all figured out?

[Acsenray]

@panaccione

That goes against our very nature. I don’t think there’s a single person that hasn’t pondered the thought of what happens after death.

I didn’t say that people don’t wonder about it. But the rational conclusion is to defer any conclusion.

Some say there’s an afterlife, others say we cease to exist.

The rational thinker says “Pending evidence to the contrary, the most rational conclusion is that we cease to exist.” Knowledge is provisional.

[harmonicamoon]

@panaccione

That goes against our very nature. I don’t think there’s a single person that hasn’t pondered the thought of what happens after death. Some say there’s an afterlife, others say we cease to exist. I don’t see anyone saying “I don’t know” and never thinking twice about it.

I am one of those who say “I don’t know”. Because the answer is unknowable. Sure you can believe things because they make you feel good, and that is completely acceptable. In fact is it better than believing in something that makes you feel horrible. But in the end, they are just thoughts or beliefs.

[panaccione]

@Czarcasm

When you can come up with a “soul” to have faith in, then we can address the rightness or wrongness of faith in such an entity, o.k.?

I already said I can’t. All I’m saying is that the true understanding of our universe is beyond our grasp which implies faith. Otherwise, there should be “nothing.” However that works.

Case in point, can anyone prove that I’m a real, living, breathing, conscious being and not just a figment of their imagination? According to my understanding, no it can’t be done. But, in reality, here I am. You can measure me from head-to-toe, and gather as much evidence as possible. But, the logic still conflicts.

So, you have a choice. You either choose to believe I’m real or that everything is simply your imagination. In either case, you’re exhibiting faith.

[panaccione]

@GIGObuster

Not sure I would want to go there as there are studies reporting that the placebo effect is not as important or even non-existent.

Is the placebo powerless? An analysis of clinical trials comparing placebo with no treatment - PubMed

Good stuff.

[panaccione]

@QuickSilver

Do you spend time pondering the state of your existance before you were born?

I don’t.

[QuickSilver]

@Czarcasm

And on that note, shouldn’t you spend some time pondering the state of your current existence? Or have you got that one all figured out?

Why? What have you heard?.. :eek:

[panaccione]

@Czarcasm

And on that note, shouldn’t you spend some time pondering the state of your current existence? Or have you got that one all figured out?

Is this question for me?

Of course I am. My best evidence would be “I think, therefore I am.” But of course I do not have it all figured out. Why else would I open up this thread?

[Czarcasm]

@panaccione

I already said I can’t. All I’m saying is that the true understanding of our universe is beyond our grasp which implies faith. Otherwise, there should be “nothing.” However that works.

Case in point, can anyone prove that I’m a real, living, breathing, conscious being and not just a figment of their imagination? According to my understanding, no it can’t be done. But, in reality, here I am. You can measure me from head-to-toe, and gather as much evidence as possible. But, the logic still conflicts.

So, you have a choice. You either choose to believe I’m real or that everything is simply your imagination. In either case, you’re exhibiting faith.

And what you are presenting is “fuzziness”. There are degrees of faith, and believing that you exist as a poster on this board doesn’t require the blind faith it takes to believe in most religious concepts(including souls). I live a full life, and I no more contemplate what I’m going to do after I die than what I may have acomplished before I lived. Would I be surprised if I end up in Heaven? Yah, sure…but no more surprised then if i ended up in Valhalla, Neverland or Oz. Tell me how open mined you really are-how much time doyou spend contemplating the existence of afterlifes that don’t correspond to your personal belief system?

[Inner_Stickler]

@panaccione

Case in point, can anyone prove that I’m a real, living, breathing, conscious being and not just a figment of their imagination?

Solipsism is, in my opinion, ultimately boring. Given that very few if any of the people I meet and interact with react as I would, imagining that they are actually extensions of myself strikes me as making things more difficult for no reason at all. Also, if everyone is a figment of my imagination, why didn’t I invent facebook?

[panaccione]

Good point. I can’t say I’ve ever considered Neverland or Oz, or really anything else besides my POV.