# Does the Georgia lawmakers' response to Delta set up an analogous example of White Privilege? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 5, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056 "2018-03-05T14:36:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/21 "2018-03-05T18:16:11Z")
Eventually, yes, but meanwhile let’s not kid ourselves. You do get the part about the existence of privilege often being unconscious, I hope. One can pride oneself on being colorblind when one is actually not. Hypocrisy and self-delusion are common human traits. If the results don’t reflect true colorblindness, then to some degree they have to be imposed until unconscious privilege becomes conscious. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/22 "2018-03-05T18:17:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Complaining publicly is what peasants do. … So we agree that the OP’s “Members complain that they are being discriminated against” is inaccurate? ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/23 "2018-03-05T18:22:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually we prefer a system where the best-qualified candidate gets the job or the college slot, not white privilege. > > Regards, > Shodan Sure, which ignores the systemic advantages that white people have. So, the white guy gets the job. He passes on his advantage to his kids. The black guy doesn’t get the job. His kids don’t inherit the advantage. Instead, they get the systemic disadvantages. Then, when they all grow up, once again, the white guy gets the job. Rinse. Repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/24 "2018-03-05T18:27:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually we prefer a system where the best-qualified candidate gets the job or the college slot, not white privilege. As soon as we provide the same level of quality education (and all that entails such as school supplies and decent school infratructre and so on) and safe neighborhoods to grow up in and three square meals a day for kids K-12 and reasonable financial support to go to college then I am right there with you. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/25 "2018-03-05T18:48:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We’ve had [threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=850132) about it. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Were there any NRA members participating there? If so, how many? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why not go in and ask them? That thread is just a liberal pile on, not a thought provoking discussion. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/26 "2018-03-05T18:55:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the point Aestivalis as making is that neither of these is a case of a group being placed at a disadvantage. They’re both cases of a group complaining about its loss because it received an advantage over other people in the past and is now being told it will be treated the same as everyone else. Thank you for a concise explanation of the OP’s argument. The NRA is a group. “White people” are not a group in a meaningful sense. The definition of “white people” has changed dramatically over time, and the “group” is much too large and lacking in hierarchy to have any type of unified message or directive. White Privilige theory is becoming more and more like ancient astronaut theory everyday. It’s basically a series of gee whiz observations superimposed onto a narrative. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/27 "2018-03-05T19:00:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let me clear it up for you. > > We used to have a system where white people were given exclusive access to things like good job offers and college admissions. They received 100% of these things even though they weren’t 100% of the eligible population. That was white privilege. > > Affirmative action changed this. It said you couldn’t give everything to white people. You had to give a fraction to people who weren’t white. White people would still get the largest share but they wouldn’t get everything. > > Most people, black and white, see this as a generally workable and fair system. Some people, pretty much all white, think it’s unfair. They apparently prefer the old “white people get everything” system. They like the idea of white privilege and they want more of it. That is not a accurate summation of the position. There is very little desire for a “white people get everything” system outside of nationalist types. The argument is that individuals should be evaluated on an individual basis. A very simple goal to shoot for, though it’s implementation will never be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/28 "2018-03-05T19:10:54Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Sure, which ignores the systemic advantages that white people have. So, the white guy gets the job. He passes on his advantage to his kids. The black guy doesn’t get the job. His kids don’t inherit the advantage. Instead, they get the systemic disadvantages. Then, when they all grow up, once again, the white guy gets the job. Rinse. Repeat. This makes the prediction that those on top will always be on top. However, 57% of those raised in the bottom income quintile, will move up into higher quintiles as adults. This also ignores the immigrant experience where millions of people have moved to this country not even speaking the language and have seen their children succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/29 "2018-03-05T19:49:52Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This makes the prediction that those on top will always be on top. However, 57% of those raised in the bottom income quintile, will move up into higher quintiles as adults. This also ignores the immigrant experience where millions of people have moved to this country not even speaking the language and have seen their children succeed. Ever hear of the poverty cycle? In short poor people tend to stay poor and the longer you are poor the more difficult it is to break out. > [@](#): > > Across the entire sample, the average spell of poverty lasted 2.8 years. The longest were among households headed by single women (3.1 years), African American men (2.7 years) and those with less than a high school diploma (2.6 years). > > Many individuals experience multiple spells of poverty, so that these spell lengths substantially understate the total time spent in poverty. Thirty-six percent of individuals return to poverty within four years of ending a spell. Among households headed by African Americans or single females, rates of re-entry within four years are 46 to 50 percent. > > Exit probabilities fall as the duration of the poverty spell increases. The exit rate from poverty is 56 percent after just one year poor, but falls to 13 percent after seven or more years in poverty. Similarly, rates of return to poverty decline with time spent out of poverty. > > SOURCE: [Transitions into and out of Poverty in the United States](https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/policy-brief/transitions-out-poverty-united-states) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/30 "2018-03-05T19:57:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually we prefer a system where the best-qualified candidate gets the job or the college slot, not white privilege. So you feel the old system which gave the good jobs and college openings exclusively to white people wasn’t based on racism. It was just an acknowledgment that white people were invariably better than non-white people. You may not have distanced your argument as far away from racism as you imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/31 "2018-03-05T20:03:20Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Sure, which ignores the systemic advantages that white people have. So, the white guy gets the job. He passes on his advantage to his kids. The black guy doesn’t get the job. His kids don’t inherit the advantage. Instead, they get the systemic disadvantages. Then, when they all grow up, once again, the white guy gets the job. Rinse. Repeat. Exactly. You can’t pretend it’s a fair race when some people get to start on the fifty meter line and some people have to start on the hundred meter line. Well, obviously, you can pretend it’s fair and plenty of people do; “Hey, we’re all running towards the same finish line, aren’t we?” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/32 "2018-03-05T20:05:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you feel the old system which gave the good jobs and college openings exclusively to white people wasn’t based on racism. It was just an acknowledgment that white people were invariably better than non-white people. > > You may not have distanced your argument as far away from racism as you imagine. No the old system was that the race in political favor got the good jobs and college openings and the races not in political favor were either shut out or subject to quotas. The civil rights movement was about replacing that system with one where everybody get a shot at good jobs and college openings regardless of race. Some people want us to return to the old system where favored races get favored now that they think their preferred races will benefit. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/33 "2018-03-05T20:26:53Z")
This entirely and SHOCKINGLY ignores the real issue here. Government penalized a private enterprise for not offering a benefit to another private enterprise. WTF is THAT??? Where does that end? What is the justification for government to demand that company A give a monetary advantage to company B? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/34 "2018-03-05T21:08:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So you feel the old system which gave the good jobs and college openings exclusively to white people wasn’t based on racism. No, I don’t. I don’t prefer the old system; I prefer a system where the best-qualified candidate gets the job or the college slot. That didn’t happen under the old system, which was based on the assumption that minorities were inherently incapable of being the best-qualified candidate, and therefore must be excluded. It also doesn’t happen under affirmative action, especially with quotas, where you have to give a fraction to people who aren’t white. So I don’t prefer that system either. > [@WillReadmore](#): > > Government penalized a private enterprise for not offering a benefit to another private enterprise. **ElvisL1ves** disagrees with you. He said > [@](#): > > The removal of an advantage is not the imposition of a disadvantage. Apparently the government didn’t penalize Delta any more than Delta penalized the NRA. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/35 "2018-03-05T21:17:20Z")
Right, they didn’t add a tax, they just rescinded a tax break they hadn’t given yet. If they still gave tax breaks on jet fuel to other customers, then that’s a discriminatory practice and indefensible. I haven’t been able to easily find if that’s what happened or not, but the phrasing of some reports say the break would have been across the board. [Cagle’s tweet](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-georgia-lawmakers-delta-nra-20180301-story.html) (that’s how Republicans do it these days) does say it’s intended to target Delta specifically, though. > [@](#): > > “I will kill any tax legislation that benefits @Delta unless the company changes its position and fully reinstates its relationship with @NRA,” Cagle tweeted on Monday. “Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.” So apparently Georgia has hurt / failed to help / pick your language \*all \*operators who buy fuel in Georgia, with all the ripple effects on the economy that you’d expect, just to spite one of their largest employers. And Jeff Bezos has no doubt noticed. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/36 "2018-03-05T21:30:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > No the old system was that the race in political favor got the good jobs and college openings and the races not in political favor were either shut out or subject to quotas. The civil rights movement was about replacing that system with one where everybody get a shot at good jobs and college openings regardless of race. Some people want us to return to the old system where favored races get favored now that they think their preferred races will benefit. Which is why State Privilege theory has much more explanatory power than White Privilege. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/37 "2018-03-05T21:32:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You may not have distanced your argument as far away from racism as you imagine. Since you have such a craftsman’s eye for judging these distances, how far from racism is the argument for race-based hiring and admissions policies? ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/38 "2018-03-05T21:35:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I don’t. I don’t prefer the old system; I prefer a system where the best-qualified candidate gets the job or the college slot. > > That didn’t happen under the old system, which was based on the assumption that minorities were inherently incapable of being the best-qualified candidate, and therefore must be excluded. It also doesn’t happen under affirmative action, especially with quotas, where you have to give a fraction to people who aren’t white. So I don’t prefer that system either. > > **ElvisL1ves** disagrees with you. He saidApparently the government didn’t penalize Delta any more than Delta penalized the NRA. > > Regards, > Shodan The argument by ElvisL1ves is just plain stupid. Government demanded a specific accommodation between two specific corporations. That is NOT free market enterprise. Government has NO business doing what they did. It should be an impeachable offense. Consider where that is going. How is it any different than the state requiring Facebook to give some free ad space to Yahoo, or requiring Texaco to give the NRA a price cut at the pump? In America, government CAN define a platform of regulation that affects all those who compete. But, having our government pick winners and losers is NOT their job. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/39 "2018-03-05T21:36:38Z")
Claiming that policies designed to compensate for systematic racism are racist in themselves is a tough argument to make, but let’s see you try. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056/40 "2018-03-05T21:38:30Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > The argument by ElvisL1ves is just plain stupid. I said Georgia’s action is politically and morally indefensible and unwise as policy, not that it’s illegal. In the end they didn’t change anything except their brand image. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-georgia-lawmakers-response-to-delta-set-up-an-analogous-example-of-white-privilege/810056.md?page=3)