# Does the mainstream media actually lie in it's reporting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683 "2017-03-08T12:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/41 "2017-03-08T18:21:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Eta: I posted the Reuters headline: **Briton admits plot to behead Muslim soldier** I feel like we have to make a distinction between headlines and stories. Headlines (not written by reporters usually) have been clickbait for 100+ years before clicks, and frequently the headline is refuted or de-slanted in the first few sentences of the article. Misleading headlines sure annoy me, but sensationalism is different than outright lying. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/42 "2017-03-08T18:21:08Z")
As someone who took a ton of humanities classes in the mid-90s, I kind of love how the American right’s take on\*\* deconstruction and postmodernism\*\* has gone from Alan Bloom to Sean Spicer. Then: LEFTISTS, WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT FACTS ARE CONTESTABLE? Now: LEFTISTS, WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT FACTS ARE INCONTESTABLE? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/43 "2017-03-08T18:21:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > People are also talking about slanting a story and Velocity was clearly speaking to that. While his memory was off a little, the actual headline is still within the point he was making. The dual citizen radicalized Muslim who plotted the beheading is described as a Briton while the unnamed British soldier as a Muslim in the headline. > > Eta: I posted the Reuters headline: **Briton admits plot to behead Muslim soldier** And the _solution_ proposed would be equally as supposedly slanted the other way. In a headline you don’t have the option to be verbose: “British/Pakistani Muslim Admits Plot To Behead British Muslim Soldier” is the most accurate version, but it’s far too long for a headline and the actual story is told fully in the article. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/44 "2017-03-08T18:31:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Eta: I posted the Reuters headline: **Briton admits plot to behead Muslim soldier** Do you not see why the would-be beheader’s nationality might be newsworthy or headline worthy? He’s BRITISH, not some scary foreigner. I mean, cmon. I guess they could have identified the perp as a “Muslim Briton” in the headline, but that’s as shitty as “Anglo American Threatens to Shoot Cop.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/45 "2017-03-08T18:36:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And the _solution_ proposed would be equally as supposedly slanted the other way. In a headline you don’t have the option to be verbose: “British/Pakistani Muslim Admits Plot To Behead British Muslim Soldier” is the most accurate version, but it’s far too long for a headline and the actual story is told fully in the article. Maybe you should have said that instead of “nice anecdote”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/46 "2017-03-08T18:39:41Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Maybe you should have said that instead of “nice anecdote”. I posted that about his anecdote before you came up with the correct story, so what you propose would have bit a bit difficult, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/47 "2017-03-08T18:44:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The flip side of that was that when you’re testifying under oath you don’t have much time for deliberate responses. Plus you’ve been asked an enormous number of other questions, and this particular one does not stand out as being especially important based on your own knowledge of the issue as it relates to you. > > By contrast, McCaskill was posting at her leisure, on an issue that was very much front and center, and was impugning the honesty of the AG. That’s something that would call for much deliberation, I would think. Wait, what? McCaskill’s tweet somehow is held to a higher standard than Sessions’ testimony under oath? Walk me through this reasoning again, please. I’d love to be able to believe this, but my brain is rebelling. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/48 "2017-03-08T18:50:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The “election” is a process. Actual ‘voting’ is just one aspect of the process. Arguably, the most significant one. > > To claim that an election can’t be influenced by means other than compromising actual voting results, is pretending that advertising, news, punditry, campaigning, funding, advocacy, lobbying have no impact on an election. So when you undermine any of those, you’re effectively working to ‘hack’ the election. “Hack?” If the Russians bought air time during the NFL’s games to promote a candidate, that wouldn’t be called a “hack.” The use of “hack” suggests “to gain access to a computer illegally,” and as applied to an election carries the implication that something much more than undermining punditry took place. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/49 "2017-03-08T18:55:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Hack?” > > If the Russians bought air time during the NFL’s games to promote a candidate, that wouldn’t be called a “hack.” > > The use of “hack” suggests “to gain access to a computer illegally,” and as applied to an election carries the implication that something much more than undermining punditry took place. “Hack” has taken on a larger meaning now-in general, it means to game a system or process to make it do something other its original intended use. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/50 "2017-03-08T18:56:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I posted that about his anecdote before you came up with the correct story, so what you propose would have bit a bit difficult, don’t you think? Only if you were deliberately being convoluted. If the article on, say, Fox had said Radical Muslim brutally beheads British soldier, would you think this was a ‘lie’ or spun for a certain reason? Why or why not? Seems central to this particular branch of the debate since both are equally factual but sort of tell a different story in the title. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/51 "2017-03-08T18:59:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today, NPR, Associated Press, etc. can and do make errors in reporting but those errors are often self correcting because they hold themselves to high standards of truth & facts. Unlike the agenda driven and fact shy outlets like Fox, Breitbart, Enquirer, conservative radio, etc… > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think [this thread about Fox](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=667548), containing many, _many_ cites, will do for part of what you seek. Nope. That thread demonstrates Fox’s bias, which is undisputed. But cites of errors - let alone corrections - are not within the first 100 or so posts (at which point I gave up). ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/52 "2017-03-08T19:00:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Hack?” > > If the Russians bought air time during the NFL’s games to promote a candidate, that wouldn’t be called a “hack.” > > The use of “hack” suggests “to gain access to a computer illegally,” and as applied to an election carries the implication that something much more than undermining punditry took place. “Hack” has a broader popular meaning. Google “lifehacks” if you’re not familiar with that usage. Now, much of the Russians’ presumed hacking was accomplished via hacking computers. So I get why people disagree with “hacking the election” as a description. But it’s not out-of-bounds, IMHO. On preview: Czarcasm made the same point. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/53 "2017-03-08T19:07:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Only if you were deliberately being convoluted. If the article on, say, Fox had said Radical Muslim brutally beheads British soldier, would you think this was a ‘lie’ or spun for a certain reason? Why or why not? Seems central to this particular branch of the debate since both are equally factual but sort of tell a different story in the title. When I posted “Nice anecdote”, the actual story had yet to be posted-there were no facts to discuss yet. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/54 "2017-03-08T19:16:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The MSM rarely tells outright whopper lies. But it does report selective truth. > > Say there are 500 stories that favor Agenda A and 500 stories that favor Agenda B. The MSM only has enough time and resources to report 100 stories a day. In that case, the MSM may select 90 stories that favor Agenda A, and only 10 stories that favor Agenda B. Even if all the stories are reported “truthfully,” it’s selective, and favors Agenda A. > > And oftentimes, it’s not fully truthful. There will be subtle bias or slant to prop up a desired social message. I think the real bias comes in via the story choice and mix, not so much in the actual stories themselves. I’ve seen times on CNN when on a slow news day, there’s a notable US or regional event of some kind, and yet CNN will publish some kind of international sob story about starving orphans in Burundi who live in caves prominently on the front page, instead of covering the (IMO more newsworthy) story going on in the US. Fox does the same thing, but about their own pet items. I doubt they actually blatantly lie, Trump-style, but they’ll prioritize different things, which ultimately means that people’s perceptions of the goings-on is correspondingly skewed, if they don’t make a habit of consuming multiple news sources. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/55 "2017-03-08T19:36:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Nope. > > That thread demonstrates Fox’s bias, which is undisputed. But cites of errors - let alone corrections - are not within the first 100 or so posts (at which point I gave up). You actually missed the ACORN affair, as pointed and AFAIK, [FOX never corrected the errors and false reporting made by O’Keefe regarding his edited](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/03/08/james-okeefe-pays-100000-to-acorn-employee-he-smeared-conservative-media-yawns/#7b763b8b14bd) and ultimately demonstrated to be also false and clearly misled by O’keefe words that came from the ACORN workers. As I also do point, a lot of the original reporting has not had an update of the issue, making then the reporting to be in double error; because many that go back then repeat the same error over and over again in message boards or even when writing the history of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/56 "2017-03-08T19:42:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think the real bias comes in via the story choice and mix, not so much in the actual stories themselves. I’ve seen times on CNN when on a slow news day, there’s a notable US or regional event of some kind, and yet CNN will publish some kind of international sob story about starving orphans in Burundi who live in caves prominently on the front page, instead of covering the (IMO more newsworthy) story going on in the US. Fox does the same thing, but about their own pet items. > > I doubt they actually blatantly lie, Trump-style, but they’ll prioritize different things, which ultimately means that people’s perceptions of the goings-on is correspondingly skewed, if they don’t make a habit of consuming multiple news sources. A classic case of this is [Missing White Woman Syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome). If an attractive young white woman or girl goes missing, it’s national news - far more than if a boy or man goes missing, or if a minority woman goes missing, or if anyone elderly goes missing. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/57 "2017-03-08T20:02:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You actually missed the ACORN affair, Why would I have heard of it? > [@](#): > > as pointed and AFAIK, [FOX never corrected the errors and false reporting made by O’Keefe regarding his edited](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/03/08/james-okeefe-pays-100000-to-acorn-employee-he-smeared-conservative-media-yawns/#7b763b8b14bd) and ultimately demonstrated to be also false and clearly misled by O’keefe words that came from the ACORN workers. Right. That’s one. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/58 "2017-03-08T20:05:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Hack” has taken on a larger meaning now-in general, it means to game a system or process to make it do something other its original intended use. If it does, I can’t be the only gray-hair that is unaware of that new meaning. Does Merriam Webster even say this? If not, then isn’t the use of it a little. . . er. . . evocative of “helping the narrative without, technically, lying?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/59 "2017-03-08T20:10:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Why would I have heard of it? Well, it was among the first 100 posts from that thread that you told us that you did look at. > [@Quartz](#): > > Right. That’s one. More than the zero that you claimed; also, there are many others after that one. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683/60 "2017-03-08T20:12:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Walk me through this reasoning again, please. Just read the post again. It’s still operative. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-mainstream-media-actually-lie-in-its-reporting/781683.md?page=4)