# Does the military punish minor infractions with physical exercise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539 "2017-12-14T21:58:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/1 "2017-12-14T21:58:31Z")
A staple of TV and movies about the military is that officers will punish very minor infractions (like not having a hat on straight) by ordering the offender to perform some exercise. This, I suppose, serves the dual purpose of punishing the rule breaker and making him or her more fit. But is it really done? or is “drop and give me 20!” just a Hollywood cliché? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/2 "2017-12-14T22:17:02Z")
I have never been in the military but I did attend a military academy in school and they had us do physical exercise for minor infractions all the time. I assumed being a military academy they got it from the military. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/3 "2017-12-14T22:36:03Z")
It’s really done. One day our drill sergeant was in a particularly foul mood, by the end of the day,I had done 400 push ups. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/4 "2017-12-14T22:42:42Z")
In boot camp, certainly. Frequently. And enthusiastically. In the fleet, not so much. When I was in, it was officially verboten. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/5 "2017-12-14T23:05:08Z")
Slightly off topic, but does it depend on the branch of service and where you are in your military career? I could see PT being used as punishment in boot camp, but is it used after you’ve been in the service for 10 or 15 years? Does it matter by service? Does the coast guard or navy use PT as punishment as much as the Army or Navy? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/6 "2017-12-14T23:12:58Z")
Drill sergeants do it daily in basic training. They even set you up for it. Officers, not so much. If an officer is going to discipline you, it’s usually with an “I’m very disappointed in you, soldier,” type lecture, that makes you feel about two inches tall. But it doesn’t happen much, and you don’t have a lot of contact with officers in basic. Sometimes, officers are even nice to you. They’re like the anti-drill sergeants. They don’t want you to get discouraged, and they know you take a lot of crap all day, so if you get one compliment in a week, especially from an officer, it can keep you going for a long time. Which is why a chewing out from an officer really cuts to the quick, because they don’t have to do it, like DSs do. If an officer takes the time to lecture you, you really screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/7 "2017-12-14T23:26:31Z")
I went through AF Basic in 1991, and it wasn’t used. In fact, it wasn’t allowed. Not sure how AF Basic is now though, but in the real AF (out of Basic), for most people it is not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/8 "2017-12-15T00:26:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I went through AF Basic in 1991, and it wasn’t used. In fact, it wasn’t allowed. Not sure how AF Basic is now though, but in the real AF (out of Basic), for most people it is not allowed. I went through Air Force Basic in 1972 and there was a little physical punishment for messing up. Usually is was running laps around the track. We had one guy who had to walk around the barracks a few times carrying his clothes drawer with his arms outstretched because he didn’t fold his underwear and socks correctly. AF basic is longer and more difficult now, but I don’t think that they use much in the way of physical punishment. ---
**Author:** ![RollOutTheBarrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rolloutthebarrel/32/1649_2.png) [@RollOutTheBarrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RollOutTheBarrel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/9 "2017-12-15T01:56:35Z")
I went through Air Force basic in 2004 and having to do pushups as punishment was very common. It was multiple times a day in the beginning, but got less frequent as we progressed. If we really screwed up, we’d have to diamond pushups and flutterkicks in addition. Outside of basic, it’s not allowed, officially. It still happened occasionally, but it was in a sort of joking way. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/10 "2017-12-15T02:08:50Z")
> [@RollOutTheBarrel](#): > > I went through Air Force basic in 2004 and having to do pushups as punishment was very common. It was multiple times a day in the beginning, but got less frequent as we progressed. If we really screwed up, we’d have to diamond pushups and flutterkicks in addition I’m not against it, since it builds strength and better than other forms of punishment. I wonder which specific Instruction changed to allow that? Any idea? > [@](#): > > Outside of basic, it’s not allowed, officially. It still happened occasionally, but it was in a sort of joking way. I was in an Air Support Operations Squadron for a year before I retired, and it wasn’t unusual to see new TACPs crawling down the hallway growling and exclaiming “I’m a sexy panther” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/11 "2017-12-15T02:20:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Slightly off topic, but does it depend on the branch of service and where you are in your military career? > > I could see PT being used as punishment in boot camp, but is it used after you’ve been in the service for 10 or 15 years? Absolutely matters. It’s multiple-times-a-day thing in basic training. They’ll make you exercise for infractions they simply made up. They’ll make you exercise because someone else screwed up. Hell, I remember one time in Basic, a problem soldier was caught screwing around and everyone _but_ him was out in the yard, doing pushups until our arms gave out. Then we did flutter kicks until our legs gave out. Then we did more pushups until nothing worked. Since our limbs were kaput, we had to pencil-roll from one end of the mud to the other. The shit-soldier who started it all was ordered to lay down and take a nap while we did all these exercises in front of him. The drill sergeant ordered him to yawn. He was made to put his hat over his eyes and his hands behind his head, reclined on the grass. So yeah, it happens all the time. Later in your career, you only do physical punishment for A) shits and giggles, or B) because you seriously screwed up, not for minor infractions. It’s much more common, though, to do to an entire platoon or company as sort of a vague threat. If you do something really unethical or intentionally immoral, like stealing or fighting, you’re not going to get CAPEd; you’ll get prosecuted under UCMJ, reduced in rank, arrested, and/or receive extra duty like “chain gang” cleanup or weekend shifts. In sum, it’s like spanking. They do it to you when you’re young, just so you know they can anytime they want, but once you’re older, you either get yelled at, written up, or just go straight to jail. I submit to you Training and Doctrine Command 350-6, section 5-21, paragraph 3: > [@](#): > > (3) **Physical exercise for corrective action.** Requiring Trainee/Soldiers to perform a reasonable number of repetitions of authorized physical exercises in accordance with FM 7-22 page 5-5 as a motivational tool is permitted for corrective action. However, consideration must be given to the exercises, repetitions, and total number of times each day that exercise is used for corrective action to limit the potential for overtraining and injuries. > In phases IV through V+ of training when 40 repetitions are administered there should be a minimum of two minutes of rest between exercises. No more than two corrective exercises per infraction are authorized. Authorized cadre (Chapter 5,paragraph 5-214(c) will alternate between upper-body and lower body or trunk exercises per Table 5-1 and FM 7-22. As you can see, it’s not only real, it’s regulated. > [@Slash1972](#): > > I went through AF Basic in 1991, and it wasn’t used. In fact, it wasn’t allowed. Not sure how AF Basic is now though, but in the real AF (out of Basic), for most people it is not allowed. Yeah, but the OP asked about the military. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/12 "2017-12-15T02:30:10Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, but the OP asked about the military. Cold blooded, man. Just cold blooded. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/13 "2017-12-15T15:00:52Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Sometimes, officers are even nice to you. They’re like the anti-drill sergeants. They don’t want you to get discouraged, and they know you take a lot of crap all day… Probably a Sunday (because 90% of the platoon was at church so they could sleep) during like week 4 of 8 in Army basic I was painting some disused room when an officer strolled in. I was exhausted and stressed having just gone through the hardest part of Basic (weeks 1-4) and snapped to attention and piped out “Good morning, Captain!” He strolled over to me, looked me up and down and said, “Correct rank, incorrect address.” (should’ve been “sir”). I was anticipating the worst but instead he just looked around to make sure there weren’t any smokey hats around and engaged me in a half hour of candid chit chat–where ya from, how you holding up, that kind of stuff. It was an unbelievable relief to have a human conversation with another adult! My whole beat down attitude recovered from that point and Basic, while still very physical, was much more bearable mentally. Sorta like when Galadriel gave Frodo a hand up … just be fore Shelob got him. 😃 After Basic, PT punishment was pretty much unheard of but it did happen. Usually to drive home the point to a screwup that he was being a screwup, the implication being he was as assed up as a new Basic recruit and he needed to get his shit together. More of a humiliation, like making a teenager take a timeout with his nose in the corner. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/14 "2017-12-15T15:32:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Cold blooded, man. Just cold blooded. > > 😃 You Air Force guys, with your long hair, rumpled uniforms, scuffed boots and pocket protectors! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/15 "2017-12-15T15:35:15Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > You Air Force guys, with your long hair, rumpled uniforms, scuffed boots and pocket protectors! Yep, it was pretty awesome! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/16 "2017-12-15T15:41:05Z")
> [@B-Rad](#): > > Probably a Sunday (because 90% of the platoon was at church so they could sleep) Hell, I went to church during basic. Episcopal church. I got to sit quietlt for an hour, and the got to eat doughnuts, and some really excellent coffee. The chaplain engaged me in conversation, and he was very smart, and we had some really interesting conversations. He knew I was Jewish, and was just going there to get out of yard work. He didn’t care. He was impressed with my Torah knowledge, and said I ought to switch my MOS to chaplain’s assistant. That was a pretty big compliment. I’m sure the DSs knew I was scamming too, but they didn’t really care. They had to give everyone something to do, so they assigned yard work to the people who didn’t go to church, but I don’t think they had a quota of yard work to get done. I think they were happy to have as many of of go to church and get out or their purview as possible. They were probably also glad I wasn’t making a stink about not going to Jewish services. There was no shul on post, so to go to Shabbes services, I had to be driven to a synagogue in the nearest town. And I needed a buddy to go with me. Which meant dragging some goy who probably would be uncomfortable, with me. That’s the main reason I didn’t press the issue. I didn’t want some goy telling all the other people in the company how “weird” Jewish services were, just because she didn’t understand them, and I didn’t want to spend the whole service explaining everything to her. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/17 "2017-12-15T16:03:50Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > … > > If you do something really unethical or intentionally immoral, like stealing or fighting, you’re not going to get CAPEd; you’ll get prosecuted under UCMJ, reduced in rank, arrested, and/or receive extra duty like “chain gang” cleanup or weekend shifts… 😕 “CAPEd”? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/18 "2017-12-15T20:37:48Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > A staple of TV and movies about the military is that officers will punish very minor infractions (like not having a hat on straight) by ordering the offender to perform some exercise. This, I suppose, serves the dual purpose of punishing the rule breaker and making him or her more fit. But is it really done? or is “drop and give me 20!” just a Hollywood cliché? Twenty repetitions, believe it or not, is 2-4 times the maximum allowable number of reps that can be administered as a corrective action in the US Army. Physical exercises CANNOT be used as punishment, not to mention the fact that only a commander can administer punishment. An NCO is authorized to administer corrective training and corrective actions. Corrective actions are a limited number of repetitions of a small, specific list of exercises. Corrective actions should not be abusive or hazing, nor should it be used for gross violations of indiscipline. It should only be used for extremely minor infractions, as a quick attention getter or motivation. Corrective training, on the other hand, is the specific retraining of a soldier in a specific task or in any area of specific deficiency or substandard performance. Corrective training should be specifically tailored toward the Soldier’s deficiency. Corrective training is preferred over corrective actions, but both have their place in the overall training and disciplining of troops. For wanton indiscipline or habitual deficiencies, UCMJ action is more appropriate–either judicial or nonjudicial. This is where the commander can actually administer punishment, such as reduction in rank or pay, extra duty, restriction, etc. It may also be determined that the soldier is simply unfit for military service in which case, the soldier is discharged for patterns of misconduct, failure to perform, or noncompliance with established standards and/or regulations. Short answer: Yes. It is used. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/19 "2017-12-15T21:04:32Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 “CAPEd”? Corrective Action through Physical Exercise. **Bear Nenno** : So, Drill can’t drop the platoon for insufficiently maintaining the barracks, right? But can the platoon be commanded to do pushups, right now, just because? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539/20 "2017-12-15T21:37:18Z")
> [@B-Rad](#): > > Corrective Action through Physical Exercise. > > **Bear Nenno** : So, Drill can’t drop the platoon for insufficiently maintaining the barracks, right? But can the platoon be commanded to do pushups, right now, just because? Drill Sereants are a different thing entirely. It’s a different environment. But suppose we’re talking about regular, everyday Army. And instead of Drill Sergeant, you’re talking about a Platoon Sergeant. In that case, is physical training on the training calendar? Signed by the company commander? If not, then technically, No. The NCO cannot just drop the whole platoon for not cleaning the barracks. The proper thing to do would be to show them specifically where they were insufficient at cleaning, retrain them on what the standard is, and then make them clean it to the standard. Have the junior NCOs clean it with them and make them show the lower enlisted what the standard is and how to clean properly. Give them a specific amount of time, and then come back to reinspect. Only the Commander can administer punishment, but only through the UCMJ process. And, while extra duty, including hard laborious activity (like filling sandbags in full equipment) could be used as punishment, physical exercise wouldn’t be. I guess it techincally _could_ be. But you’re never going to go through all the hoops of the UCMJ process just to have someone do 20 push-ups. With that said, the commander makes the training schedule. So if he wanted to add physical readiness training to the calendar–right this second–I suppose he could legally have everyone do 20 push-ups right now. But again, if it was used as punishment (what’s the perception? Is it perceived as punishment?), he could find himself in trouble over it. Technically. In practice, the NCO is going to say “Do push-ups!” And everyone is going to start pushing, and that’s that. But, hazing, abuse, smoke sessions…etc. That’s can get the NCO, and even the commander undo attention. All it takes is one disgruntled, offended soldier to start filing complaints. The commander has broad leeway in his authority and ability to train his men. But that authority ends well short of abuse, belittling, hazing, etc. Drill Sergeants… while technically they have to follow the same rules, it’s just not the same in practice. As long as shit doesn’t get abusive, it’s not really a bad thing. But as soon as it gets excessive or abusive, the Drill Sergeant risks putting his career in jeopardy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-punish-minor-infractions-with-physical-exercise/804539.md?page=2)