# Does the military really 'protect our freedom'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030 "2011-03-09T10:42:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/61 "2011-03-12T17:22:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Perhaps not our freedom but our lives. By denying Al-Qaeda a safe haven in Afghanistan they can no longer as easily plot terrorist attacks on the US. Have you even considered the possibility that you may be mixing cause and effect here? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/62 "2011-03-12T17:44:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What about the freedom of the Vietnamese people and the long-term struggle against Communism? “I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader.” Source: Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mandate for Change, 1953-56 (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Compnay, Inc., 1963), p. 372 [http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/ddeho.htm](http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/ddeho.htm) * * * Final declaration, dated July 21, 1954, of the Geneva Conference on the problem of restoring peace in Indochina, in which the representatives of Cambodia, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, France, Laos, the People’s Republic of China, the State of Viet-Nam, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the United States of America took part… The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions… no military base at the disposition of a foreign state may be established in the regrouping zones of the two parties… the military demarcation line should not in any way be interpreted as constituting a political or territorial boundary… general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities. from The Department of State Bulletin, XXXI, No. 788 (August 2, 1954), p. 164. > **[Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History](https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1954-geneva-indochina.asp)** ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/63 "2011-03-13T20:19:52Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What about the freedom of the Vietnamese people and the long-term struggle against Communism? Since New Deal Democrat isn’t Vietnamese, the former is irrelevant; and the “long-term struggle against Communism” turned out to be a big waste of time and money. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/64 "2011-03-13T21:38:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Since New Deal Democrat isn’t Vietnamese, the former is irrelevant; and the “long-term struggle against Communism” turned out to be a big waste of time and money. Excuse me? We won the Cold War in the end in a decisive victory with the breakup of the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/65 "2011-03-13T22:04:58Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Excuse me? We won the Cold War in the end in a decisive victory with the breakup of the USSR. Excuse _me_-the topic of the preceding posts was communism in Viet Nam. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/66 "2011-03-13T22:08:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Excuse _me_-the topic of the preceding posts was communism in Viet Nam. He was talking about my quote on “the long term struggle against Communism” by which I meant the Cold War not just Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/67 "2011-03-13T22:13:23Z")
**New Deal Democrat** was talking about the fight against Communism in Viet Nam, and **Really Not All The Bright** responded by saying that > [@](#): > > “long-term struggle against Communism” turned out to be a big waste of time and money. , obviously referring to Viet Nam. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/68 "2011-03-13T22:16:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **New Deal Democrat** was talking about the fight against Communism in Viet Nam, and **Really Not All The Bright** responded by saying that, obviously referring to Viet Nam. I was the first to use the term “long term struggle against Communism” and meant the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/69 "2011-03-13T22:28:46Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I was the first to use the term “long term struggle against Communism” and meant the Cold War. Actually, _Rotarian Magazine_ was the first to use the term back in March of 1953. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/70 "2011-03-14T00:07:51Z")
Considering that the only Communist regimes left in the world are the ones we actually did use our military against, it seems plausible to argue that the use of our military had nothing to do with ending Communism and was actually detrimental to that effort. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/71 "2011-03-14T01:25:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Considering that the only Communist regimes left in the world are the ones we actually did use our military against, it seems plausible to argue that the use of our military had nothing to do with ending Communism and was actually detrimental to that effort. I can see China-by-proxy in Korea, but Cuba? ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/72 "2011-03-14T18:37:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I can see China-by-proxy in Korea, but Cuba? Bay of Pigs Invasion? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/73 "2011-03-14T18:48:08Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Bay of Pigs Invasion? Not military, was it? It was a CIA/Cuban exile project. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/74 "2011-03-14T18:49:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Not military, was it? It was a CIA/Cuban exile project. You’re probably right. I was thinking of it more generally as an attack, and failed to take the thread subject fully into account. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/75 "2011-03-15T01:10:45Z")
Actually, I find the Geneva Convention to be a little flawed. If it governs war and says what can and cannot be done, then it prevents militaries from using every means at their disposal to achieve total victory. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/76 "2011-03-20T23:15:29Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > And the United States, and the United States military, in concert with other states throughout the world help pressure your police state out of existence. Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/77 "2011-03-21T13:36:35Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I was the first to use the term “long term struggle against Communism” and meant the Cold War. I was referring to the Vietnam conflict, but frankly I think the point remains regardless. Communism doesn’t really work, and if anything, Western paranoia helped many communist governments hold on to power long after the experiment had failed. In any event, we didn’t win the Cold War; that’s Reaganese. The Soviets stopped playing. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030/78 "2011-03-21T14:41:51Z")
When I worked in California for Mitsubishi Electronics, a co-woker had the last names of “Halsey”. I asked if he was any relation to the famous admiral, he replied that he was his great-nephew. I told him that if it wasn’t for people like his uncle, we’d all be worjing for the Japanese. he didn’t get the irony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-military-really-protect-our-freedom/574030.md?page=3)