# Does the NRA do anything good? (not sarcastic) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996 "2019-04-03T20:06:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/41 "2019-04-05T20:24:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does the NRA post articles promoting the use of those safes over guns at the ready on/in bedstands and under pillows? No, but unless you have kids, why would you need to lock your guns up like that when you are home? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/42 "2019-04-05T20:35:10Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Again, I’m saying that my problem is with the fact that they tout education while opposing storage laws, and in fact, use said education as the argument for why they fight the storage laws.The key words I have an issue with are “Rather than…” > > A truly good (and isn’t that the point of this thread?) NRA quote would be more like: “Good” is relative. I support the Eddie Eagle program and actively promote efforts by the NRA to introduce it into local schools. You may or may not be surprised as to how much pushback from individuals we receive Simply because the program was developed by the NRA. Ultimately, it appears that for too many, unenforceable safe storage laws are more important than actual free hands on safety instruction for youth. In my opinion, the two have very little to do with each other. Teaching kids how to be safe around firearms promotes far more “good” than hoping the local legislature might pass a law or two. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/43 "2019-04-05T20:55:04Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Actually you are not correct, many studies have shown that the best form of deterrence is the certainty of being apprehended, and you may be surprised to know that the length of sentence itself is not as great a deterrent as you might imagine. > > Personal experience of criminals - which merely amounts to anecdotes on my part - seems to confirm this but please bear in mind that I have been in contact with hundreds of offenders. I have had exchanges with prisoners who have stated that they would change their offence of choice based upon the next potential conviction if caught again but its noteworthy that they do not state they are going to give up on offending. > > [http://jenniferdoleac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DNA\_Denmark.pdf](http://jenniferdoleac.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DNA_Denmark.pdf) > > [https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Deterrence-in-Criminal-Justice.pdf](https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Deterrence-in-Criminal-Justice.pdf) > > [The Threat of Punishment Does Little to Reduce Crime](https://undark.org/article/deterrence-punishments-dont-reduce-crime/) > > [The myth behind long prison sentences](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180514-do-long-prison-sentences-deter-crime) I’m not certain that any criminal justice system penalty- even the death penalty- is comparable to the risk of an intended victim retaliating with lethal force. Your own cites say that criminals seldom think in terms of eventual consequences, only immediate ones- and encountering an armed citizen is as immediate as it gets, and backs up the commonly reported fear by burglars of encountering armed residents. One anecdote on this comes from Israel, which has seen any number of terrorists committing attacks that they knew they wouldn’t survive. But after the Ma’alot Massacre in 1974 Israel established a citizen watch program, where volunteers could be trained as police auxiliaries to be on watch and serve as on-the-spot responders. Reportedly, so many would-be terrorists were ignominiously killed by women and grandparents that gunman attacks were phased out in favor of bombings. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/44 "2019-04-05T22:43:23Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > “Good” is relative. I support the Eddie Eagle program and actively promote efforts by the NRA to introduce it into local schools. You may or may not be surprised as to how much pushback from individuals we receive Simply because the program was developed by the NRA. Based on the responses that I’ve gotten in this thread, I’m not sure if I buy the reason for their push-back. People seem to think I have a problem with the Eddie Eagle program when I’ve made it very clear that that is not the case. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, it appears that for too many, unenforceable safe storage laws are more important than actual free hands on safety instruction for youth. In my opinion, the two have very little to do with each other. Teaching kids how to be safe around firearms promotes far more “good” than hoping the local legislature might pass a law or two. Using your definition of unenforceable, possession of nuclear armaments and child pornography are also unenforceable, but I’m still okay with having laws in those respective categories. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/45 "2019-04-06T00:29:20Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > …Using your definition of unenforceable, possession of nuclear armaments and child pornography are also unenforceable, but I’m still okay with having laws in those respective categories. That’s fine until people start to mention that the EE program is somehow inferior to safe storage laws. EE gets the message of gun safety in front of kids hoping that they will have half a chance of acting appropriately around a found or discovered weapon BEFORE someone gets hurt. Safe storage laws punish after the fact that “something” has already occured like a shooting unless your ideas of safe storage allows for compulsory inspections or something. I see the two as apples and oranges frankly, with the only commonality between them being guns. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/46 "2019-04-06T04:24:34Z")
For fucks sake, it does not have to be an exclusive-or situation. Hey Velocity, since no one on the side of the NRA seems able to actually read my posts, I’ll go ahead and change my answer to “No, the NRA doesn’t do anything good.” ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/47 "2019-04-06T06:36:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > a.k.a. “Fudds”. As in “you can ban everything else and place every restriction on firearms ownership and carry, as long as we can still have bolt-action deer rifles and single-shot shotguns”. Pretty much what gun control advocates wish gun ownership could be reduced to in America. > … Thank you for a fine post. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/48 "2019-04-06T06:53:45Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Again, I’m saying that my problem is with the fact that they tout education while opposing storage laws, and in fact, use said education as the argument for why they fight the storage laws.The key words I have an issue with are “Rather than…” > > … AFAIK, the NRA does not oppose laws that require trigger locks or safe storage in homes with young children. They DO oppose making everyone having their guns not reachable in case of need. This is what DC required, for example. So “safe storage” laws can mean a wide range of laws. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/49 "2019-04-06T07:26:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > AFAIK… [LRB-4423](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160120/multiple-anti-gun-bills-introduced-in-the-wisconsin-assembly) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/50 "2019-04-06T08:41:55Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > One anecdote on this comes from Israel, which has seen any number of terrorists committing attacks that they knew they wouldn’t survive. But after the Ma’alot Massacre in 1974 Israel established a citizen watch program, where volunteers could be trained as police auxiliaries to be on watch and serve as on-the-spot responders. Reportedly, so many would-be terrorists were ignominiously killed by women and grandparents that gunman attacks were phased out in favor of bombings. That, I think, is the exact definition of a “well-regulated militia”. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/51 "2019-04-06T11:51:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not certain that any criminal justice system penalty- even the death penalty- is comparable to the risk of an intended victim retaliating with lethal force Not really wanting to hijack, but you are missing the point, killing the offender through the arming citizens is - in effect - increasing the certainty of being caught. This is why there is a change of method to bombs, if the chances of being caught setting bombs was near 100% then that would act as an effective deterrent. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/52 "2019-04-06T14:40:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That, I think, is the exact definition of a “well-regulated militia”. Which I wouldn’t object to at all, provided it wasn’t used as an excuse to forbid people from participating. > [@casdave](#): > > Not really wanting to hijack, but you are missing the point, killing the offender through the arming citizens is - in effect - increasing the certainty of being caught. This is why there is a change of method to bombs, if the chances of being caught setting bombs was near 100% then that would act as an effective deterrent. True, although in reference to crime in the US there is a subculture that is so inured to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment that it is regarded merely as an unlucky break that might or might not occur sometime in the future. Again, long-term thinking is sadly absent in a percentage of the population, making short-term immediate deterrence more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/53 "2019-04-06T16:45:54Z")
How would having a gun _decrease_ the likelihood of being the victim of violent crime? A would-be thief is motivated by the desire to get valuables. They don’t, a priori, have to shoot anyone. But if their would-be victim draws a gun, the thief is going to start shooting, too. As for the NRA, if they stood for what they claim to stand for, they’d be natural allies with Black Lives Matter. Philando Castille was killed by the police because he was a black man with a gun. Tamir Rice was killed by police because they thought he was a black man with a gun. An organization that genuinely supports people being allowed to have guns should be at the forefront of the fight for justice for them, and pushing to change policies to prevent further such incidents. Why don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/54 "2019-04-06T16:47:25Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > [LRB-4423](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160120/multiple-anti-gun-bills-introduced-in-the-wisconsin-assembly) what does that have to do with my post? Other than confirming it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/55 "2019-04-06T16:48:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Which I wouldn’t object to at all, provided it wasn’t used as an excuse to forbid people from participating. > > True, although in reference to crime in the US there is a subculture that is so inured to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment that it is regarded merely as an unlucky break that might or might not occur sometime in the future. Again, long-term thinking is sadly absent in a percentage of the population, making short-term immediate deterrence more effective. Guys, this is getting away from the NRA and into a general gun debate, of which we have plenty. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/56 "2019-04-06T17:30:12Z")
Yes, thanks **DrDeth**. We have dozens of gun threads already and I was meaning to ask specifically about the NRA’s merits itself as an organization and what good it does, rather than guns. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/57 "2019-04-06T19:04:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what does that have to do with my post? Other than confirming it. So you have an actual example of this safe storage law that they support? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/58 "2019-04-06T19:32:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > what does that have to do with my post? Other than confirming it. “Mandates that all gun owners must lock up their firearms if they reside with a minor under 18 years of age.” The NRA opposed this law in Wisconsin. His cite didn’t confirm your opinion, it categorically refuted it. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/59 "2019-04-07T02:56:54Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > I completely agree with everything you said in this post. > > The problem is that the NRA uses the education aspect as a tool to fight against laws regarding the safe storage aspect, i.e. the laws requiring a fence around the pool. Since the claim was that it was a “good”, I completely disagree that the Eddie Eagle program is a anything but a smokescreen. > > You want the swimming lessons and the fence, awesome. You put together subpar swimming lessons as an excuse to fight fence regulations, not so good. The fence does NOT require the home-owner to unlock to access his/her own pool. It is to prevent wandering children from drowning. Do you often have wandering strangers in your home? Does wearing a holstered gun make you feel that is ‘safe’ storage? Children can’t get it after all… Sounds like that is what you should be advocating. ---
**Author:** ![Tempe\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tempe_jeff/32/7328_2.png) [@Tempe\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tempe_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996/60 "2019-04-07T02:58:44Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > “Mandates that all gun owners must lock up their firearms if they reside with a minor under 18 years of age.” The NRA opposed this law in Wisconsin. His cite didn’t confirm your opinion, it categorically refuted it. “… minor under 18 years of age.” ROFLMAO ! How many minors are OVER 18? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-nra-do-anything-good-not-sarcastic/831996.md?page=4)