# Does the order of mixing matter in cooking and baking? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2011, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862 "2011-01-08T09:55:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/21 "2011-01-09T21:11:17Z")
> [@velvetjones](#): > > My husband often remarks that baking is a lot like chemistry and I have to agree. I’ve learned the hard way why you do things in a certain order and why it’s bad to over mix cakes and muffins. Baking isn’t LIKE chemistry, it IS chemistry. Very, very practical chemistry. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/22 "2011-01-09T21:58:49Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > But garlic does cook quite a bit faster than onions do; think of how small the pieces are. It’s more the fact that garlic is drier than onion, and turns bitter when overcooked. Onion caramelizes. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/23 "2011-01-09T22:12:37Z")
Maybe I shouldn’t have used garlic in my example. I just made up a (to my mind) typical recipe instruction, sorry. But I still suspect that recipes are 75% woo. I’ve just been looking at some Nigella Lawson recipes, and she says things like “drop the meatballs into the sauce in concentric circles”. So the recipe would be ruined if I dropped the meatballs in rectangular rows? It’s the ludicrous over-specific instructions that set my eyes rolling. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/24 "2011-01-09T22:22:10Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Maybe I shouldn’t have used garlic in my example. I just made up a (to my mind) typical recipe instruction, sorry. But I still suspect that recipes are 75% woo. I’ve just been looking at some Nigella Lawson recipes, and she says things like “drop the meatballs into the sauce in concentric circles”. So the recipe would be ruined if I dropped the meatballs in rectangular rows? It’s the ludicrous over-specific instructions that set my eyes rolling. I think that’s written for people who don’t want to read things like “Drop the meatballs into the sauce, taking care to place them far enough away from each other so they cook evenly and don’t stick together.” Instead, they say “concentric circles” to get the same idea across. But yeah, a lot of recipes are crap. I tend to stay away from anything except very trusted sources. And overly-complex instructions are the least of the problem; I read recipes all the time where I go “that recipe will never work” or “there’s no way this is going to taste good” or “boy, that’s really confusing - they don’t mention if that’s supposed to be dry or canned beans, and if you use the wrong one you’re screwed.” ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/25 "2011-01-10T09:33:13Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think it is about 75% bullshit. Typical instruction: “Fry the onions for five minutes, then add a clove of chopped garlic, simmer for one minute and add a tablespoon of paprika.” I seriously doubt that it makes any difference if you follow those steps in reverse order. You actually want to add the paprika before the onions… ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/26 "2011-01-10T19:09:20Z")
> [@Chipacabra](#): > > Salt will draw moisture and protein to the surface. If you do this to, say, a steak before you sear it, then it will promote the Maillard reaction and give you better browing. On the other hand, if you stir salt into ground meat before forming patties for hamburgers, you’ll destroy the texture. In general, I always salt meat on any surface that will be exposed to heat, and I do it at least a few minutes before cooking. Good to know, thanks for that. I did know that adding salt to beans before they are cooked toughens the seed coat and makes it so they never, ever soften. Acidic ingredients like tomatoes will do the same thing to beans. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/27 "2011-01-10T19:17:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Indeed - it may be that some of the ordered instructions are bullshit, but it’s quite funny that **Ximenean** gave an example where timing _is_ quite critical. If you overcook garlic, it’s terribly bitter tasting.) And paprika is especially susceptible to burning, so it should go in last, preferably off the heat before an ingredient with significant moisture content is introduced. So that order, onions, then garlic, then paprika, is pretty critical. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/28 "2011-01-10T19:20:19Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > And sometimes it’s just for convenience. Some recipes may call for you to saute spices in oil as the first step, then add the other ingredients. You certainly could saute the spices in oil in another pan, and add them later in the recipe, but it’s easier to just do it first and not dirty another pot. I actually find, in Indian food particularly, that frying the spices separately and adding them late in the process produces a better-tasting dish. Made me a bit sad to realize this, because the other way is easier & makes for an easier clean-up. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/29 "2011-01-10T19:24:59Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > You actually want to add the paprika before the onions… This is not at all my experience. Hungarian cooking–which starts with the trinity of onions, fat, and paprika, so they should know–always adds paprika after the onions reach translucency. The reason for this is, as stated in my previous post, to avoid scorching the paprika, which is really easy to do, it having a high sugar content. If you keep things moving fast in the pan, you might be okay, but, otherwise, to keep things stress-free, you add the paprika after the onions have cooked down, off the heat, to let it dissolve in the oil and release its flavor, without having to worry about it possibly scorching. ETA: I should add that other spices I will cook in the oil/fat from the beginning, as they don’t scorch as easily as paprika. ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/30 "2011-01-10T20:34:00Z")
Anyone else notice that the OP’s muffin recipe outlines the creaming method, not the muffin method? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/31 "2011-01-10T23:27:50Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think it is about 75% bullshit. Typical instruction: “Fry the onions for five minutes, then add a clove of chopped garlic, simmer for one minute and add a tablespoon of paprika.” I seriously doubt that it makes any difference if you follow those steps in reverse order. Onions have a lot of water in them and take longer to cook. The aromatics in garlic tend to burn before the onions are ready. Similarly in a different vain, the paprika does not need to cook too long, just a few seconds. It’s bind up the oil you are sauting in and burn before the onions cook.:o ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/32 "2011-01-10T23:52:15Z")
Advice for beginning cooks is if you are going to make an unfamiliar recipe, wait for a day of leisure and make it exactly as written. _NEVER_ make a dish the first time on a busy day the day of a party/special dinner. Hell, practice something for a few months first, playing with changing little things [less sweet, more sweet, less salty/spicy, more salty/spicy, slightly different ingredients.] Some people are mechanics, they have to make something exactly following the recipe, any variance screws something up. My first mother in law was like that. Other people are artists. Dull boring pedestrian stuff becomes gourmet magic, they can take a box of random ingredients and make heaven. Most people are in between. ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/33 "2011-01-14T20:51:21Z")
I have a fair amount of experience with baking (I make pastries at a local bakery and have done for coming on 5 years) and some experience cooking (as an amateur). I would say that in both types of food preparation the order definitely matters, but that you can often produce “successful” results using different orders and techniques. Every single change to the way something is prepared changes the final product. The thing is, not every change ruins the final product and in many cases the difference is pretty much imperceptible. Furthermore, there are always changes that are usually beyond a cook or bakers control (e.g. air temperature, humidity). These don’t always have a major impact on the final product, but sometimes they make a big difference. I think it’s a good idea to play around with recipes and try different ways of doing things because you can start to learn what the effect of changing a particular parameter is. As has been said above, it’s a good idea to start out by following the recipe exactly. That way you have a sort of baseline. Eventually you can try different ways of doing things and see what the results are. As a general rule changing amounts of ingredients (within reason) is less likely to mess things up than changing the order, although it really depends on the particular situation and there are a lot of exceptions. Baking _and_ cooking are both arts. They are also sciences. And, for that matter, they are both chemistry. Much like the way Sculpture and Painting are both arts, Physics and Astronomy are both sciences, and biochemistry and organic chemistry\* are both chemistry. The main difference between the two is where we put our attention. \*I’m not familiar with the sub-disciplines of chemistry, so there may be a more apt comparison. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/34 "2011-01-14T20:58:42Z")
> [@Jeneva](#): > > Good to know, thanks for that. I did know that adding salt to beans before they are cooked toughens the seed coat and makes it so they never, ever soften. Acidic ingredients like tomatoes will do the same thing to beans. Actually, no. The first part is wrong, no matter what your grandmother taught you. Cook’s Illustrated did a number of tests that totally disproved the “salt makes beans tough” idea. You are _supposed_ to salt beans before they cook. That way the salt gets inside rather than just sit on the surface. Acids, OTOH, **do** toughen beans. ---
**Author:** ![Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9adbd/32.png) [@Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fell_through_the_Ice)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/35 "2011-01-14T22:53:42Z")
In baking, I often see recipies ask you to “make a well” (as in excavate a hole in) the bowl of dry ingredients, then add the wet stuff into the hole, then mix. Why? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/36 "2011-01-14T22:55:20Z")
It allows you to incorporate the wet ingredients slowly, by mixing it with your hands. It generally gives you a smoother mixture. ---
**Author:** ![Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9adbd/32.png) [@Fell\_through\_the\_Ice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fell_through_the_Ice)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/37 "2011-01-15T04:17:32Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It allows you to incorporate the wet ingredients slowly, by mixing it with your hands. It generally gives you a smoother mixture. Were you referring to my post? Because the recipes that call for wells do not call for mixing by hand. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/38 "2011-01-15T05:14:27Z")
I’ve often heard that the well method allows you to only use the amount of dry goods actually required to mix with the wet goods. Eggs might vary in their size, and even local humidity and such can affect the final mix amounts. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/39 "2011-01-15T05:37:24Z")
I will agree that candymaking is an exacting science.\* But baking? I dunno. Certainly it’s less forgiving than cooking. But I’ve found baking recipes to be surprisingly elastic in my experience. You can’t vary too far from the ratios outlined but a quarter teaspoon vs a half or 3/4ths does not, ime upend anything. And I don’t do the two bowls shit. Dry and wet get all mixed in together and if that makes my brownies tough, well, they don’t hang around more than a day or two so either, it’s not that important or my roommates are particularly plebeian in their tastebuds. \*I suspect this is because I do not make candy very often and therefore do not know the stages very well, the way I do with doughs and batters. If I were to bake every saturday for a few years, I would probably find that candy is just as elastic but in a different way than baking. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862/40 "2011-01-15T13:13:45Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Actually, no. The first part is wrong, no matter what your grandmother taught you. Cook’s Illustrated did a number of tests that totally disproved the “salt makes beans tough” idea. You are _supposed_ to salt beans before they cook. That way the salt gets inside rather than just sit on the surface. > > Acids, OTOH, **do** toughen beans. Nobody taught it to me, I learned it from experience years ago. That was the only thing I could think of that would have affected why my bean soup remained bullet soup after hours and hours of cooking anyway, when I found it mentioned in a cookbook after the fact it seemed to apply to my situation. There wasn’t anything acidic in it, so it couldn’t have been that, if you have another explanation I’d like to hear it so I don’t make the same mistake again. Same thing happened to a split pea soup back in the day, it was split pebble soup even after cooking for many hours. I stopped adding salt to the cooking water and it didn’t happen again – until I recently made baked beans from scratch (as opposed to out of leftover bean soup like my mom does) and put the acidic ingredients in too soon, and ended up with baked bullets. That’s how I learned about the acid thing, though by then I had the internet to look things up so it was easier to find the information. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-order-of-mixing-matter-in-cooking-and-baking/566862.md?page=3)