# Does the papacy really use a Silver Hammer to make sure the Pope is dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737 "2002-10-17T21:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PolskiKing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@PolskiKing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PolskiKing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/1 "2002-10-17T21:58:53Z")
Our dinner conversation tonight driffted to the election of the pope of the Roman Catholic church and my dad said that a silver hammer is of some significance either in the election or the death of the Pope So is it really true that they bang the pope with a silver hammer to make sure hes dead or is there some other significance to the hammer? Also, we talked about one of my dads associates being Coptic, a rite of the Cathloic church. I remember from religion class the rites are Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Bizzantine, Russian, and a couple others. My question is are they all under the leadership of the pope? Do they have different parishes and diosesse? Can a Coptic pope be elected instead of a Roman pope? -PK ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/2 "2002-10-17T22:26:25Z")
With regards to the silver hammer, it is apparently true. [This site](http://www.saint-mike.org/Apologetics/QA/Answers/Faith_Spirituality/f991215Patrick.html) quotes the book, _Pontiff_, written by journalists Gordon Thomas and Max Morgan-Witts: > [@](#): > > From the moment the Pope dies, the Secretary of State, I believe, becomes the camerlengo. He, with the College of Cardinal will run the church until the next Pope is elected. > > The Camerlengo supervises all aspects of what goes on from the death of the pope to the election of the next pope. He is involved in the funeral arrangements to the preparing for the conclave and all that goes into that. > > But his first duty is to perform a ritual at the deathbed of the Pope. A ritual that goes back to the Middle Ages is to take a silver hammer and lightly tap on the pope’s head. Then in a strong voice call out to the Pope in his baptism name. For example, for Pope Paul VI, the Camerlengo would tap the pope on the head and then say, "Giovannit Daltista Enrico Antonio Marie, are you dead? > > This is repeated two more times. > > Upon the third tap and call to the pope, if the pope does not answer, it is proclaimed, “Pope N. is truly dead!” I am curious to know if it is the same silver hammer the Pope uses to [knock down the Holy Door in St. Peter’s Basilica.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_247.html) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/3 "2002-10-17T22:32:39Z")
With regards to your second question, the Coptic, Byzantine, and various Orthodox rites are all separate churches. So you’re not likely to see a Coptic pope in charge of the Roman Catholic Church (or Latin rite, to be contrasted with the others). ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/4 "2002-10-17T22:33:01Z")
Has there ever been Camerlengo named Maxwell Edison? ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/5 "2002-10-17T22:38:02Z")
The mystery of the Roman Catholic church never ceases to amaze me. I swear I;'ve read this before. “Hello, Vatican emergency medical services” “Something terrible has happened, the holy father is dead!” “Calm down now, let’s take this one step at a time. First let’s make sure he’s actually dead.” \ “Okay, now what?” ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/6 "2002-10-17T23:45:29Z")
Hey, the “there were two hunters…” variant of that just recently won the “Funniest Joke in the World” contest. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/03/joke.funniest/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/03/joke.funniest/index.html) > [@](#): > > \*Two hunters are out in the woods when one of them collapses. He doesn’t seem to be breathing and his eyes are glazed. The other guy takes out his phone and calls the emergency services. > > He gasps: “My friend is dead! What can I do?” The operator says: “Calm down, I can help. First, let’s make sure he’s dead.” There is a silence, then a gunshot is heard. Back on the phone, the guy says: “OK, now what?”\* > > Wiseman said the joke worked across many different countries and appealed to men and women and young and old alike. > > “Many of the jokes submitted received higher ratings from certain groups of people, but this one had real universal appeal,” he said ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/7 "2002-10-18T00:20:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Padeye \* > \*\*The mystery of the Roman Catholic church never ceases to amaze me. I swear I;'ve read this before. > > “Hello, Vatican emergency medical services” > “Something terrible has happened, the holy father is dead!” > “Calm down now, let’s take this one step at a time. First let’s make sure he’s actually dead.” > \ > “Okay, now what?” \*\* Hahahaha 😃 😃 😃 ahhhh… Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/8 "2002-10-18T02:08:54Z")
It is not true that the Eastern Rite churches are seperate from the Roman Catholic Church. Certainly the Orthodox Church is seperate (and has been officially since 1054), but the Catholic Church, in addition to the Latin Rite, contains churches of the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Antiochene, Chaldean, and Armenian Rites. (Other Catholic rites, like Syro-Malabar Rite, which is found in India, are actually forms of one of those five rites. [Chaldean in the case of Syro-Malabar.]) Eastern Rite (or “Uniate”) Churches are very different from what you probably think of as Catholic. They are generally more similar to Orthodox churches. Unlike Latin Rite churches, Eastern Rites often have married clergy. They follow their own liturgy, have their own sets of Canon Law, and maintain their own heirachies each headed by a Patriarch. Nevertheless, they are part of the Roman Catholic Church, and acknowledge the Pope as the supreme head of the Church. Obviously, it is unlikely that an Easten Rite priest would ever become Pope. On the one hand, since the Pope is Bishop of Rome, and Rome is part of the Latin Rite, it may also be impossible. On the other hand, I imagine the Cardinals have a lot of leeway in who they elect. I have no idea if there are “requirements” for election. (Under Canon Law, that is. Of course the Cardinals won’t elect just anyone.) Most of this information can be found [here](http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/eastrite.htm) FTR, IANAC. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/9 "2002-10-18T02:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*With regards to your second question, the Coptic, Byzantine, and various Orthodox rites are all separate churches. So you’re not likely to see a Coptic pope in charge of the Roman Catholic Church (or Latin rite, to be contrasted with the others). \*\* Well, actually, in 1958, one of the Cardinals they thought might be named pope was Cardinal Agagianan, who was a member of the Armenian Catholic Church. So, if he had been elected, you would have had a member of the Armenian rite as the head of the Latin Rite (because the Pope is the head of the Latin rite). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/10 "2002-10-18T02:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*With regards to your second question, the Coptic, Byzantine, and various Orthodox rites are all separate churches. So you’re not likely to see a Coptic pope in charge of the Roman Catholic Church (or Latin rite, to be contrasted with the others). \*\* I’m sorry, **ultrafilter** , but that is incorrect. The Byzantine Catholic Church is an Eastern Rite church, yes, but under the authority of the Holy See and whose members are bound by the Code of Canon Law. The Byzantine Church includes the Maronites, the Melkites, and the Assyrian Catholics, among others. In addition, the Coptic rite Catholics in Egypt and elsewhere, Armenian rite Catholics, Chaldean-rite Catholics in Iraq and Iran, and Ethiopian rite Catholics in Africa, are all Catholics in union with the Holy See, and … > [@](#): > > in those Churches, which are distinguished by their venarable antiquity, there is clearly evident the tradition which has come from the Apostles through the Fathers and which is part of the divinely revealed, undivided heritage of the Universal Church. > > The Holy Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ, is made up of the faithful who are organically united in the Holy Spirit by the same Faith, the same sacraments and the same government. They combine into different groups, which are held together by their hierarchy, and to form particular Churches or Rites. Between those Churches there is such a wonderful bond of union that this variety in the Universal Church, far from diminishing its unity, rather serves to emphasize it. For the Catholic Church wishes the traditions of each particular Church or Rite to remain whole and entire, and it likewise wishes to adapt its own way of life to the needs of different times and places. > > These individual Churches both Eastern and Western, while they differ somewhat among themselves in what is called ‘rite’, namely, in liturgy, in ecclesiastical discipline and in spiritual tradition, are none the less all equally entrusted to the pastoral guidance of the Roman Pontiff, who by God’s appointment is successor to Blessed Peter in primacy over the Universal Church. Therefore these churches are of equal rank, so that none of them is superior to the others because of its rite. They have the same rights and obligations, even with regard to the preaching of the Gospel in the whole world (cf. Mk.16:15), under the direction of the Roman Pontiff. _Vatican II’s **Decree on the Catholic Eastern Churches** _ So a Byzantine bishop not only could be elected Pope, but he would not need episcopal ordination. I say this only to point out that, in theory, any person could be elected pope, even a layman. The era of lay Popes is long gone as a matter of realism, of course… but a Byzantine Pope is certainly possible. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/11 "2002-10-18T11:58:05Z")
"in theory, any person could be elected pope, even a layman. The era of lay Popes is long gone as a matter of realism, of course… " So there could be a Pope Zev I? Cool! Actually, I am guessing that by “any person”, you would only include Roman Catholics of one rite or another. When was there a “lay” Pope? I know a lot of them acted as if they were “lay” persons, but I didn’t thing there’d ever been a non-ordained pope before. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/12 "2002-10-18T12:16:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milton De La Warre \* > [B > When was there a “lay” Pope? I know a lot of them acted as if they were “lay” persons, but I didn’t thing there’d ever been a non-ordained pope before. \*\* Among others, John XII was a lay person (and only 18) when he was picked. If a non-priest was selected pope, he would be ordained and then officially coronated. ---
**Author:** ![kase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@kase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kase)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/13 "2002-10-18T12:31:00Z")
OMG. I’ve never heard of the silver hammer. Just one more thing [besides the silly dresses and hats] to keep me smiling all day. Thank You. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/14 "2002-10-18T12:56:26Z")
In theory, any male person could be elected. He would not actually be pope, however, until he had been baptised, been ordained a bishop and accepted his election. In practice, the election of a layman is unlikely, and the election of an unbaptised layman even less likely. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/15 "2002-10-18T14:46:17Z")
I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/16 "2002-10-18T14:55:05Z")
Am I the only one to find myself humming _bing bang Maxwell’s Silver hammer came down upon his head…_? ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Frank\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_2)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/17 "2002-10-18T15:25:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NurseCarmen \* > \*\*Am I the only one to find myself humming _bing bang Maxwell’s Silver hammer came down upon his head…_? \*\* Me too. It should be the theme song for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/18 "2002-10-18T17:10:50Z")
Wait a minute, Rick, you claim that all Catholic Rites are bound by the same Code of Canon Law. My source (which I linked to in my earlier post) says that’s not the case. This is a pretty minor technical point (from the perspective of the general public), but I’m curious. Are you sure? ---
**Author:** ![NotMrKnowItAll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6bbea6/32.png) [@NotMrKnowItAll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotMrKnowItAll)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/19 "2002-10-18T18:21:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NurseCarmen \* > \*\*Am I the only one to find myself humming _bing bang Maxwell’s Silver hammer came down upon his head…_? \*\* I’m glad I’m not alone. I also have a twisted version of “If I had a Hammer” in my head as well: If I had a Hammer, I’d a hammer pope Martin I’d hammer pope Eugene All over this Land (Clever lots can add more verses) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737/20 "2002-10-18T19:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by käse \* > **I’ve never heard of the silver hammer. Just one more thing [besides the silly dresses and hats] to keep me smiling all day.** “So Mr Costanza, what is it that attracts you to our religion?” “I think it’s the hats.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-papacy-really-use-a-silver-hammer-to-make-sure-the-pope-is-dead/132737.md?page=2)