# Does the Queen just make up titles **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171 "2011-04-29T16:11:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/61 "2011-04-30T15:01:52Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Does a title grant anything other than having the title? Does it have any impact on the area for which the title is named? Now that William is the Duke of Cambridge, does it have anything really to do with the place called Cambridge? I thought that in the middle ages, when one was named Baron of X or Earl of Y, one was being put in charge of such a place and received financial benefits and whatever feudal duties came with it. Has this changed? If so, when and in what way? Pretty much ended in 1066, to be honest. Before that the Earls ran the local tax system, courts, militia, the whole kit and caboodle. After that those powers mostly went to Sheriffs while the Bastard spread the influence of his chief tenants around the country to stop them establishing regional power bases. There was an exception to that for the Marcher Lords and initially for Northumbria, until Waltheof went and ruined it for everyone. There are still a few Duchies which come with land and castles and so forth, primarily the Duchy of Lancaster, which is Brenda’s personal gig, and the Duchy of Cornwall, which is a sort of personal business run by the Duke of Cornwall, aka Prince of Wales, Prince of Scotland, Lord of the Isles, heir apparent, &c.. > [@Pleonast](#): > > How do titles from non-British sources work? The British monarch also holds titles like “Defender of the Faith”, given by a pope, and “Duke of Normandy”, given by a French king. Is it possible for British subjects to hold foreign titles, or is only the monarch allowed to? Nelson, Admiral Lord Nelson, Nelson of the Nile, &c., as well as being a Baron in the House of Lords was made a Duke by the King of the Two Sicilies. The First Duke of Marlborough was given a small principality of his own by the Holy Roman Emperor. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/62 "2011-04-30T15:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=blindboyard;13747244=Pleonast] How do titles from non-British sources work? The British monarch also holds titles like “Defender of the Faith”, given by a pope, and “Duke of Normandy”, given by a French king. Is it possible for British subjects to hold foreign titles, or is only the monarch allowed to? Nelson, Admiral Lord Nelson, Nelson of the Nile, &c., as well as being a Baron in the House of Lords was made a Duke by the King of the Two Sicilies. The First Duke of Marlborough was given a small principality of his own by the Holy Roman Emperor. [/QUOTE] Similarly, the Duke of Wellington was awarded [several foreign titles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms,_titles,_honours_and_styles_of_Arthur_Wellesley,_1st_Duke_of_Wellington#International). ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/63 "2011-04-30T15:42:42Z")
Is it worth speculating what (if any) future titles may be bestowed upon the Duchess of Canterbury’s immediate family, especially if/when she becomes Queen? Didn’t Diana’s brother get an Earldom? Princess Pippa sounds absolutely pip pip old chap! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/64 "2011-04-30T15:51:28Z")
Diana’s brother inherited the earldom from his father, [Earl Spencer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Spencer). I don’t see any reason why the Duchess of Cambridge’s relatives would be given titles. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/65 "2011-04-30T16:11:10Z")
Thanks **Northern Piper** ignorant thought fought. For some reason I thought Diana was also a commoner. Meh… been out of the UK too long ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/66 "2011-04-30T16:16:52Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Princess Pippa sounds absolutely pip pip old chap! Sounds [Swedish](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippi_Longstocking), actually. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/67 "2011-04-30T19:31:50Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > I don’t think there is anything stopping her. The Peerage of Ireland still exists (and even still has a few titleholders extant), but no new Irish peers have been created since Ireland became independent. Nonetheless, I think she could hand out one of those titles if she wished (although there may be diplomatic pressure from the Irish government not to do so). > > Zev Steinhardt Being a republic, does Ireland forbid its citizens from accepting such a title, except honorarily (cf prominent Americans who have been knighted, but can’t use the title _Sir_). I was surprised by the title Duke of _Cambridge_; it sounds rather generic. She could have at least thrown in a hyphen or something. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/68 "2011-04-30T19:57:22Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Being a republic, does Ireland forbid its citizens from accepting such a title, except honorarily (cf prominent Americans who have been knighted, but can’t use the title _Sir_). But just like William doesn’t have to be from Cambridge, couldn’t she give the title to someone from Northern Ireland or Great Britain? I mean, what are the Irish going to do, blow something uuuuh…never mind! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/69 "2011-04-30T21:36:13Z")
The Queen is indeed still the Duke of Normandy: [http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/QueenandCrowndependencies/ChannelIslands.aspx](http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/QueenandCrowndependencies/ChannelIslands.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/70 "2011-05-01T21:49:43Z")
Hard to see how Irish citizens could receive a peerage, (unless they applied to become naturalised of course) seeing as they are outwith the Commonwealth. To do so would probably require primary legislation. Honorary knighthoods, however, are perfectly possible, e.g. Bob Geldorf. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/71 "2011-05-01T22:12:53Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Thanks **Northern Piper** ignorant thought fought. > > For some reason I thought Diana was also a commoner. > > Meh… been out of the UK too long No, she was Lady Diana Spencer when she married Charles and became Diana, Princess of Wales (she was never Princess Diana, though she could have been called Princess Charles correctly). Her father became an Earl when his father passed away and the daughters all became Ladies. One thing she didn’t have in common w/ Charles is that she was an English blue-blood while he is more German than English. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/72 "2011-05-01T22:28:58Z")
The daughter, granddaughter, or sister of an Earl is a commoner, regardless of any courtesy title that she might use. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/73 "2011-05-01T22:58:52Z")
> [@manila](#): > > Is it worth speculating what (if any) future titles may be bestowed upon the Duchess of Canterbury’s immediate family, especially if/when she becomes Queen? Who is the Duchess of Canterbury and if she existed, why would she become Queen? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/74 "2011-05-01T23:59:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Who is the Duchess of Canterbury and if she existed, why would she become Queen? There once was a [Viscount Canterbury](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscount_Canterbury) (or Lord Canterbury), which would be a good reason never to have a Duke of Canterbury. And there still is a [Duke of Kent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Kent) .. and since Canterbury is a city in Kent, that would be another reason not to have a Duke of Canterbury, since his hypothetical grace would be apparently subordinate to HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/75 "2011-05-02T00:14:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@manila](#): > > > > Is it worth speculating what (if any) future titles may be bestowed upon the Duchess of Canterbury’s immediate family, especially if/when she becomes Queen? > > Who is the Duchess of Canterbury and if she existed, why would she become Queen? I think **manila** meant the Duchess of Cambridge (i.e., the former Kate Middleton). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/76 "2011-05-02T00:39:28Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > And there still is a [Duke of Kent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Kent) .. and since Canterbury is a city in Kent, that would be another reason not to have a Duke of Canterbury, since his hypothetical grace would be apparently subordinate to HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent. Subirdinate? Is this the way it works? So far as I know the rekative status of peer has nothing to so with the actual geographical locations for which they’re named. As far as the viscount, it’s my impression that titles are often recreated. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/77 "2011-05-02T02:21:11Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The daughter, granddaughter, or sister of an Earl is a commoner, regardless of any courtesy title that she might use. I dug around the Wiki and I see what you mean; if I understand it correctly, the current Earl Spencer (Diana’s brother), being a peer, is not a commoner; but Prince Harry and even Anne, Princess Royal **are** commoners as neither is a peer, though they were born royal. Prince William has never been a commoner b/c he has male primogeniture, like his dad. Ergo, his uncles Andrew and Edward were commoners until their Mum created them Duke and Earl on their wedding days, respectively. I understand the peerage idea much better now, but it makes me wonder why HRM didn’t make Anne a marquess on her wedding day? Her husband was offered an Earldom which he refused. Thank you, **ascenray** , for making me research and understand! How cute is this old article poo-pooing Wills & Kate as a couple? [http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/features/So-who-should-William-woo.2425222.jp](http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/features/So-who-should-William-woo.2425222.jp) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/78 "2011-05-02T02:27:44Z")
I still don’t buy that anyone called a Prince or Princess and thus entitled to the style “His [or Her] Royal Highness” is a commoner, and would welcome an authoritative cite to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/79 "2011-05-02T02:28:02Z")
Does anyone know how the succession is defined for the new Dukedom of Cambridge? Is it restricted (as is traditonal) to Prince William’s heirs male? Or was it broadened to both male and female heirs? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171/80 "2011-05-02T04:34:14Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > Does anyone know how the succession is defined for the new Dukedom of Cambridge? Is it restricted (as is traditonal) to Prince William’s heirs male? Or was it broadened to both male and female heirs? I’m pretty sure it’s restricted to heirs male, but it doesn’t really matter much in the end. When William becomes king it’ll merge back into the crown. If he dies before becoming king and has a son it’ll go to the son, who’ll then go on to become king. If it’s restricted to heirs male and he only has daughters it’ll go extinct. If it’s not restricted to heirs male and William has only daughters the eldest one would inheirit it, but she’d also go on to become Queen and it’d still end up merging with the crown. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-queen-just-make-up-titles/580171.md?page=5)