# Does the success of the "Me Too" movement ground on an abuse of presentism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378 "2017-12-13T10:46:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/41 "2017-12-15T01:20:25Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Slight nitpick with the bolded part: I always thought that those ads for Nair were aimed at women who wanted the exposed part of their legs to look smooth and hair-free. Shorts don’t have to be short enough tp show pubic hair to attract guys’ attention. Nair is for leg hair. The notion that those commercials had anything to do with pubic hair is baffling to me. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/42 "2017-12-15T01:39:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Nair is for leg hair. The notion that those commercials had anything to do with pubic hair is baffling to me. Isn’t it basically lye? No one would want to change exposing mucus membranes to Nair. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/43 "2017-12-15T01:42:08Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Isn’t it basically lye? > > No one would want to change exposing mucus membranes to Nair. I think they have a bikini zone version now, but we’re talking really harsh chemicals, especially when those commercials were running. I was alive and a woman when they were running and not once did I interpret those commercials to be pubic hair related. My girlfriends and I made fun of them all the time so we were well aware they existed. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/44 "2017-12-15T07:52:14Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think they have a bikini zone version now, but we’re talking really harsh chemicals, especially when those commercials were running. I was alive and a woman when they were running and not once did I interpret those commercials to be pubic hair related. My girlfriends and I made fun of them all the time so we were well aware they existed. I don’t remember seeing any shorts that would match what Sam described. At the time, the length of the shorts was something to be remarked upon - today no one even notices. BTW, in New York at least my impression was that construction workers who wolf whistled were considered trogs - and even worse, Nixon lovers. No accident that “Joe,” played by Peter Boyle, was a construction worker. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/45 "2017-12-15T11:54:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Well, since those ads were targeted at women, you’d think a competent ad agency would have done focus groups and such to see if women responded to it. > > Remember the Nair commercials? “Who wears short shorts? We wear short shorts! If you dare wear short shorts, Nair for short shorts!” We are talking shorts so short that women had to worry about pubic hair sticking out. Just who do you think those short shorts were for? You \*\*did not \*\*understand those commercials. They still make Nair, so pick up a bottle sometime and read the back. You are strongly cautioned not to get that stuff anywhere near your genitals. All the ads were getting at was having hair-free legs. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/46 "2017-12-15T15:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > You did not understand those commercials. They still make Nair, so pick up a bottle sometime and read the back. You are strongly cautioned not to get that stuff anywhere near your genitals. All the ads were getting at was having hair-free legs. That’s what I was thinking, though I was a child when those commercials were popular. [The one marked 1987 has a bikini zone tag. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpIeTy\_gmSg]The one marked 1986](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19AQDP1JiiQ) does not. I remembered the song, and the dancing. No men in commercial. 1981 version had bathing suits and a different song (aloe vera). 1988 had a wolf whistle, but was “dare wear short skirts” and really, “short shorts” is the only version I remembered. At a quick glance, the earliest I see with the tune (words different) is 1978. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/47 "2017-12-15T17:23:38Z")
Wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/48 "2017-12-16T18:15:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Really? Because I would think such things could be used as evidence of what ‘cultural norms’ were at the time, which would in turn indicate whether your behavior was outside of those norms or something that a reasonable person might understand to be harassment. > > There were countless ads in the past decades which showed women walking past men and being ogled, whistled at, commented on, etc. Then the woman would smile and wink at the camera and we’d find out what her ‘secret’ was for attracting all that male attention. I don’t remember protests against these commercials, by women or men. And apparently such ads worked with women, as they ad companies kept it up for decades. > > However, there have never been ads showing men groping a woman because she was wearing short shorts, or exposing his junk to a woman because her perfume drove him mad. Because that kind of behavior has always been wrong. I disagree. Especially because I still see things like cartoons, made back in the 1930’s, where “wolf whistling” and the like was portrayed to be the behavior of boors and jerks. Most commercials are NOT made, only after a careful research into the mores of the current times is conducted. They are made and then at most, tested on a small audience. Most of the time, the ads come out first, then are withdrawn when too many people complain. In short, I think you are attributing a LOT more thoughtfulness to advertisers than they deserve credit for. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/49 "2017-12-17T04:16:27Z")
The thing is, many men feel a degree of guilt regarding this phenomenon. For me, at first I considered myself one of the “good guys”, but then I realized that back in my late teens / early 20s, I was hopeless at hitting on girls, and in hindsight I think I made many girls uncomfortable. So immaturity is a factor, as is culture at the time (as the OP mentions). I’m not excusing anything. What I’m saying is this: what would be a good thing for society going forwards would be if we could have a mature conversation about this; if guys could voluntarily admit they did this or that, and we all understand why it was wrong. Instead though, it’s been boiled down to black and white, and so most guys have got their heads down hoping their name doesn’t come up next and they get grouped with Weinstein. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/50 "2017-12-24T21:15:22Z")
It’s not presentism, because such behavior was condemned in the past - it just wasn’t punished, because moral suasion was supposed to be enough, and because people didn’t recognize the type of harm that was done. It was “wrong, but not that bad, and sometimes kinda funny.” Now, more people recognize the harm, and most are prepared to punish sexual harassment in more concrete ways, but there are still enough people harassing or worse (or who have done it recently) to discourage these developments. Nonetheless, it’s called a “wolf whistle” because the man who does it is a “wolf”: [ > [@](#): > > ([Wolf Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary](http://www.yourdictionary.com/wolf))]One that is regarded as predatory, rapacious, and fierce. > A man who habitually makes aggressive sexual advances to women. Also, no - Nair is not and never was lye. Nair’s active ingredient is potassium thioglycolate; calcium and sodium hydroxides are present at a pH of about 10, as I recall, which definitely softens hair, but mainly serves to make it reactive (with the thioglycolate). Lye is a solid (or a concentrated solution). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378/51 "2017-12-24T22:31:49Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > … > > I understand the indignation and resentment of the people who have had enough of the sexual misconduct of certain men (often in position of power) and if they need to turn me into a target to release their anger, I will accept it for the greater cause that the Me Too movement should really revolutionize relationships between men and women. It’s so cool when people fall on their swords. Makes me feel really selfish for not joining them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-success-of-the-me-too-movement-ground-on-an-abuse-of-presentism/804378.md?page=2)