# Does the term White Privilege hurt it's own cause **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673 "2012-10-14T06:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/1 "2012-10-14T06:50:56Z")
I presume that this thread may turn into a debate about White Privilege, does it exist, is it an exaggeration, etc, that is OK with me if that topic comes up, but, for the sake of this thread I am asking is the term itself problematic because it alienates a lot of white people? I’ve really struggled, and still do, to take on the term White Privilege. I don’t have any problem accepting that life is easier for me being White (and Male) and I definitely don’t like it that PoC (people of color) and other minorities are treated unfairly. But I have difficulty “owning” the term or “owning” my privilege. And I’m even aware that the term is not supposed to be aimed at me personally. After studying the topic, even just a little, I realize it is talking about institutions, it is not pointing a finger at Robert… But for whatever reason, good or bad, it feels that way. Of course, that is my reaction, some white people use it freely with no qualms or reluctance. So, what do you’ll think, is the term itself problematic or should White people who don’t like it quit being so sensitive? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/2 "2012-10-14T07:02:10Z")
It comes across as ridiculous. Just ask some homeless white guy eating out of garbage cans how privileged he feels. Oh, sure, there’s plenty of white racists; many in positions of power. But they are motivated by a hatred of non-whites far more than out of any “concern for white people”. Being left to rot because no one cares enough about you to persecute you at the moment isn’t “privilege”. “White privilege” - like another old favorite, “the patriarchy” - presumes a solidarity among whites (or males, in the latter case) which doesn’t exist. And it’s rhetoric that alienates whites who are among the downtrodden who might otherwise be inclined to support any push for equality, if it wasn’t being presented to them as “whites are evil”. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/3 "2012-10-14T07:12:07Z")
“White privilege” is a stupid, offensive concept. The problem is that non-whites, women and non-heterosexuals are treated poorly, _not_ that whites, or men, or heterosexuals are treated decently. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/4 "2012-10-14T07:13:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It comes across as ridiculous. Just ask some homeless white guy eating out of garbage cans how privileged he feels. > > Oh, sure, there’s plenty of white racists; many in positions of power. But they are motivated by a hatred of non-whites far more than out of any “concern for white people”. Being left to rot because no one cares enough about you to persecute you at the moment isn’t “privilege”. > > “White privilege” - like another old favorite, “the patriarchy” - presumes a solidarity among whites (or males, in the latter case) which doesn’t exist. And it’s rhetoric that alienates whites who are among the downtrodden who might otherwise be inclined to support any push for equality, if it wasn’t being presented to them as “whites are evil”. I remember seeing you from another thread on this topic. You seem to be against both the term and the concept both. I have no trouble with the concept. I could probably list 12 ways I have it easier being a white male and a minority or PoC could probably list 112, or more. So, let me ask you, as to the concept itself, that Whites have it easier, do you agree or disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/5 "2012-10-14T07:16:26Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > “White privilege” is a stupid, offensive concept. The problem is that non-whites, women and non-heterosexuals are treated poorly, _not_ that whites, or men, or heterosexuals are treated decently. So would you agree with a strong Anti-Racist movement if it had some other title than White Privilege? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/6 "2012-10-14T07:18:05Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > So, let me ask you, as to the concept itself, that Whites have it easier, do you agree or disagree? Yes, they do. But virtually all of that is due to a relative lack of persecution, not because they are “privileged”. A bigoted white cop isn’t going to be handing out money to white people or lurking about them to protect them as some whites-only bodyguard; he’s going to be spending his time harassing (and worse) _non_-whites. “Relatively less persecution” and “privilege” aren’t the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/7 "2012-10-14T07:19:53Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > So would you agree with a strong Anti-Racist movement if it had some other title than White Privilege? Actually, I’d think that a movement named White Privilege would be a bunch of white supremacists. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/8 "2012-10-14T07:25:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes, they do. But virtually all of that is due to a relative lack of persecution, not because they are “privileged”. A bigoted white cop isn’t going to be handing out money to white people or lurking about them to protect them as some whites-only bodyguard; he’s going to be spending his time harassing (and worse) _non_-whites. “Relatively less persecution” and “privilege” aren’t the same thing. OK, but to use your example, black males frequently talk about how much more the police harass them. At one point in time I would of probably disregarded that. But I’ve looked into it enough to know it’s true. It’s actually a very solid statistic. Another statistic would be that if your name sounds white you are twice as likely to get called in for an interview than if your name was Lamont [insert generic last name]. I guess what I mean is, the extent of all this is so pervasive that hoping that it will be properly prosecuted is not enough. What would be your solution to how to handle the situation and end racism? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/9 "2012-10-14T07:29:37Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > OK, but to use your example, black males frequently talk about how much more the police harass them. At one point in time I would of probably disregarded that. But I’ve looked into it enough to know it’s true. It’s actually a very solid statistic. Another statistic would be that if your name sounds white you are twice as likely to get called in for an interview than if your name was Lamont [insert generic last name]. > > I guess what I mean is, the extent of all this is so pervasive that hoping that it will be properly prosecuted is not enough. > > What would be your solution to how to handle the situation and end racism? Well, in that particular case crack down on racist cops with whatever amount of force is necessary, and stop ordering racist policies like New York’s frisking-brown-people policy. The growing tendency to look the other way when cops do something bad is making them a haven for both racists and a variety of other unsavory types. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/10 "2012-10-14T07:33:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, in that particular case crack down on racist cops with whatever amount of force is necessary, and stop ordering racist policies like New York’s frisking-brown-people policy. The growing tendency to look the other way when cops do something bad is making them a haven for both racists and a variety of other unsavory types. Ok, here is the problem with your approach. Forgive me please if I have it wrong or if I am characterizing you wrongly. It seems as if you want to try to police the bad results at the end of a racist dynamic instead of going to work on the root cause(s). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/11 "2012-10-14T07:38:06Z")
I don’t like the term because it reinforces the concept that there are races. But the concept behind the term is valid. I certainly have been privileged because our racist society views me as ‘white’. I’ve had plenty of opportuntities that would not have been available if I were considered ‘black’. Even the homeless man considered ‘white’ has those privileges. He can clean himself up and he will find that society treats him better because of his perceived ‘race’. The term is what’s offensive. There is simply the existence of racist privilege and racist restriction, which is the inevitable result of racism. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/12 "2012-10-14T07:41:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t like the term because it reinforces the concept that there are races. Yes, that is it, the term itself sets up a division, this group and that group… > [@](#): > > But the concept behind the term is valid. I certainly have been privileged because our racist society views me as ‘white’. I’ve had plenty of opportuntities that would not have been available if I were considered ‘black’. Even the homeless man considered ‘white’ has those privileges. He can clean himself up and he will find that society treats him better because of his perceived ‘race’. > > The term is what’s offensive. There is simply the existence of racist privilege and racist restriction, which is the inevitable result of racism. I agree with these comments as well, of course ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/13 "2012-10-14T08:07:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > So would you agree with a strong Anti-Racist movement if it had some other title than White Privilege? Identifying racists as a problem is far better than identifying whites not getting screwed as a problem. To repeat what **Der Trihs** said: '“Relatively less persecution” and “privilege” aren’t the same thing." ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/14 "2012-10-14T08:09:32Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Identifying racists as a problem is far better than identifying whites not getting screwed as a problem. To repeat what **Der Trihs** said: '“Relatively less persecution” and “privilege” aren’t the same thing." OK… but, racists and racists activities are the end result of a system. Shouldn’t we be focused on fixing the the things that cause the system to go bad? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/15 "2012-10-14T08:09:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t like the term because it reinforces the concept that there are races. But the concept behind the term is valid. I certainly have been privileged because our racist society views me as ‘white’. I’ve had plenty of opportuntities that would not have been available if I were considered ‘black’. Even the homeless man considered ‘white’ has those privileges. He can clean himself up and he will find that society treats him better because of his perceived ‘race’. OTOH, you haven’t been able to benefit to the same extent from institutional racism in University [admissions](http://infoproc.blogspot.co.nz/2009/10/affirmative-action-numbers.html): > [@](#): > > US News: … Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s. > > Espenshade found that when comparing applicants with similar grades, scores, athletic qualifications, and family history for seven elite private colleges and universities: > > Whites were three times as likely to get fat envelopes as Asians. Hispanics were twice as likely to win admission as whites. African-Americans were at least five times as likely to be accepted as whites. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/16 "2012-10-14T08:21:23Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > OTOH, you haven’t been able to benefit to the same extent from institutional racism in University [admissions](http://infoproc.blogspot.co.nz/2009/10/affirmative-action-numbers.html): so, I can’t tell, are you saying Affirmative Action is unfair or flawed in some way? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/17 "2012-10-14T08:24:12Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > OK… but, racists and racists activities are the end result of a system. Shouldn’t we be focused on fixing the the things that cause the system to go bad? Whites not getting screwed _isn’t_ the cause, it’s a statistical artefact. It’s like blaming muggings on everyone who hasn’t been mugged. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/18 "2012-10-14T08:29:40Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Whites not getting screwed _isn’t_ the cause, it’s a statistical artefact. It’s like blaming muggings on everyone who hasn’t been mugged. Ummm… I think the point is that the whole framework of our culture is built around stereotypes and prejudice of one form or another. And differing levels of opportunity and advancement. What are we supposed to do about this? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/19 "2012-10-14T08:45:31Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > so, I can’t tell, are you saying Affirmative Action is unfair or flawed in some way? Of course it is. It treats people differently based on their race. Philosophy professor [Carl Cohen](http://michigantoday.umich.edu/97/Fal97/mt10f97.html) has written a [lot](http://www.michigandaily.com/news/10supreme-court-hear-university-texas-affirmative-action-case10?page=0,1) about it and I largely agree with him. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/20 "2012-10-14T08:57:22Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Of course it is. It treats people differently based on their race. Philosophy professor [Carl Cohen](http://michigantoday.umich.edu/97/Fal97/mt10f97.html) has written a [lot](http://www.michigandaily.com/news/10supreme-court-hear-university-texas-affirmative-action-case10?page=0,1) about it and I largely agree with him. that article seems to be kind of all over the place. is there any particular point you were trying to emphasize? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673.md?page=2)