# Does the term White Privilege hurt it's own cause **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673 "2012-10-14T06:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/101 "2012-10-14T22:54:04Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why should academics find a new term just because people who can’t even do a basic google search misuse it? Should we get rid of the terms “global warming”, “natural selection”, “immaculate conception”, and “evolution” as well? All of those have been misused by people who don’t know what they are talking about. For starters, the definitions and explanations of privilege that a quick Google search yields refer to privilege as special rights or permissions that are/were deliberately put in place, officially codified, deliberately preserved, and often deliberately and officially revoked. This is how most people use the term privilege in their day-to-day lives. White privilege refers to a phenomenon that (depending on how you prefer to split hairs) came to be without deliberate implementation, is not deliberately codified or preserved, and cannot be officially revoked. Indeed, the whole premise of white privilege is that white people don’t even _pay attention_ to various inequalities. Come to think of it, in terms of the usual definition of privilege, white privilege is the opposite of a privilege (both in terms of effect and legal status), and happens to everyone except white people. I think you should cut people a little slack for assuming that white privilege refers to privileges that white people enjoy instead of a set of anti-privileges that non-white people endure. In contrast, a quick Google search of “natural selection” brings you right to a clear, concise, and correct definition of the term, as used by biologists. Also, I can’t recall of any creationist getting hung up on the term “natural selection”. I’ll grant you that “survival of the fittest” is unclear and jargony, though. (On preview, it appears that this thread is starting to get nasty. For the record, I’m just playing with words here.) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/102 "2012-10-14T23:47:50Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > It is also a human trait to want to hang on to their _rights_, especially when people like yourself start calling them privileges. > > All other things being equal, not having cancer will make your life easier than having cancer. But the problem is that some people have cancer, not that some people have the “privilege” of not having cancer. Please describe in what way A) being black is like having cancer B) being treated preferentially for being white is a right. Love to hear your explanations on these. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/103 "2012-10-15T00:00:58Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Please describe in what way > > A) being black is like having cancer According to **DianaG** , being black is like having cancer in that both both will make your life harder. If you’ve got a problem with this, talk to her, not me. > [@](#): > > B) being treated preferentially for being white is a right. Being treated reasonably is a right, _regardless of race_. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/104 "2012-10-15T00:02:39Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > For starters, the definitions and explanations of privilege that a quick Google search yields refer to privilege as special rights or permissions that are/were deliberately put in place… The first google result of “white privilege” is the wiki page which has an in depth explanation of the term. The next few are academic sites that explain the concept as well. As misunderstanding is with the person who cannot properly google something. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/105 "2012-10-15T00:21:01Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > According to **DianaG** , being black is like having cancer in that both both will make your life harder. If you’ve got a problem with this, talk to her, not me. What you’re missing is that while cancer is a physical problem, the issues that come with being black (or a minority in general) are a societal problem. There’s nothing inherent to being black that makes it bad in the way having cancer is bad; it’s the fact that our society subconsciously assumes whiteness as the natural state. > [@](#): > > Being treated reasonably is a right, _regardless of race_. No argument there. The entire point of the privilege concept is to bring the realization that not everyone is treated reasonably to the fore, and that it runs to a deeper level than being pulled over for Driving While Black. Would you rather have it expressed in [Louis CK](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY) terms? > [@](#): > > Here’s how great it is to be white. I could get in a time machine and go to any time and it would be fuckin’ _awesome_ when I get there. That is exclusively a white privilege. Black people can’t fuck with time machines. A black guy and a time machine is like: “Hey, anything before 1980, no thank you, I don’t wanna go.” But I can go to any time. The year 2, I don’t even know what was happening then, but I know when I get there: “Welcome, we have a table right here for you, sir.” “Oh, thank you. Oh, it’s lovely here in the year 2.” > > I can go to any time. In the past. I don’t wanna go in the future and find out what happens to white people because we’re gonna pay hard for this shit, you gotta know that. We’re not gonna just fall from number one to two. They are gonna hold us down and fuck us in the ass forever. And we totally deserve it. But for now, WHEEEE! > > Now if you’re white and you don’t admit that it’s great, you’re an asshole. It is great. And I’m a _man_. How many advantages can one person have? I’m a white man. You can’t even hurt my feelings! What can you really call a white man that really digs deep? “Hey cracker.” “Oh, ruined my day. Boy, shouldn’t’ve called me a cracker, bringing me back, owning land and people, what a drag.” ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/106 "2012-10-15T00:32:09Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > The first google result of “white privilege” is the wiki page which has an in depth explanation of the term. The next few are academic sites that explain the concept as well. As misunderstanding is with the person who cannot properly google something. “I don’t think you’re using that word properly.” “Well, _duh!_ Privilege doesn’t mean privilege when you’re talking about white privilege. Learn to google.” ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/107 "2012-10-15T00:58:21Z")
Well, that doesn’t sound whiny at all. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/108 "2012-10-15T01:08:08Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > “I don’t think you’re using that word properly.” > > “Well, _duh!_ Privilege doesn’t mean privilege when you’re talking about white privilege. Learn to google.” And the Holy Roman Empire was neither a holy, roman, nor an empire. If a person is so intent on using an academic term, yet they can’t perform a basic google search to understand how the term is used, then they are not to be taken seriously. I don’t think the problem is with the academics because people might be confused. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/109 "2012-10-15T01:15:28Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I agree with **DianaG**. The problem is personalization. Whether it be you applying “white privilege” to yourself or people accusing other individuals of having “white privilege”. I think both are overwrought ways of looking at the subject. > > To go back to the word “oppressed”. I have only rarely heard someone say “I have been oppressed.” Usually, people will apply this word to institutions and peoples. As in, “The Jews were oppressed by the Third Reich.” Or “Jim Crow was an oppressive institution.” Likewise, I would not accuse an individual of being “oppressive”. Maybe an agent of oppression, but I would save the word “oppressor” for something bigger than one individual. > > I am not a victim of oppression, but my people (black Americans) have collectively been victimized by oppression. My neighbor, a white guy, may or may not be privileged, but he belongs to a group that enjoys privilege. > > You may not be able to help feeling guilty when the top of white privilege comes up. But you can frame the discussion in ways that mitigate these feelings. I think that I’m inclined to agree with you. It’s just taken me a little bit to get used to the term. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/110 "2012-10-15T01:36:34Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > Also, I can’t recall of any creationist getting hung up on the term “natural selection”. I’ll grant you that “survival of the fittest” is unclear and jargony, though. IIRC, “survival of the fittest” was coined by Social Darwinists, and was _meant_ to be unclear and jargony when you get right down to it. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > It’s understandable to be uncomfortable and to take the small logical leap from “privileged” to “villain.” But it’s still a leap. Privileged doesn’t mean villain. Yes, it does; especially in an argument that supposed to be egalitarian. That’s the point of using the term. In an egalitarian worldview, privilege is something to be torn down and destroyed. And when you get right down to it, that’s how I think that most people pushing the term “white privilege” actually feel. They don’t mean the term how it is “officially” supposed to mean, they mean it like it sounds. > [@Bosstone](#): > > Would you rather have it expressed in [Louis CK](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY) terms? > > > [@](#): > > > > Here’s how great it is to be white. I could get in a time machine and go to any time and it would be fuckin’ _awesome_ when I get there. That is exclusively a white privilege. Which is nonsense. For the vast majority of people, living in the past was a close approximation of hell. Claiming that being a serf under the lash was “fuckin’ awesome” is ridiculous. For most of history the fact that I’m an atheist would have gotten me killed if it was discovered; that isn’t “fuckin’ awesome” at all. This is just a variation on the attitude that human history started sometime in 1950s America. > [@brickbacon](#): > > And the Holy Roman Empire was neither a holy, roman, nor an empire. If a person is so intent on using an academic term, yet they can’t perform a basic google search to understand how the term is used, then they are not to be taken seriously. The people using the term are the ones confusing others, not the ones being confused. And it’s amusing to hear “just google it” when complaining about privilege; you do realize that home computer ownership is nowhere near universal? Especially among the very poor whites whom users of the term are trying to convince that they are “privileged” despite being in poverty. A political argument that needs to be googled to be understood isn’t a very good argument. And proponents can huff and puff how people _should_ understand that “privileged” doesn’t mean what it sounds like, but most people _won’t_. Most people who hear the term aren’t going to bother googling it even if they have internet access; they’ll take the term as it sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/111 "2012-10-15T01:52:59Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > And the Holy Roman Empire was neither a holy, roman, nor an empire. So you agree that “white privilege” is an inaccurate (and possibly also grandiose) term for what it actually means? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/112 "2012-10-15T02:00:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For most of history the fact that I’m an atheist would have gotten me killed if it was discovered; that isn’t “fuckin’ awesome” at all. Der, you don’t seriously think of yourself as being a member of an oppressed or persecuted minority do you?:dubious: Is that why you’re reacting in such a way to a term that quite accurately describes certain advantages being “white” is to being non-white? Do you feel that in doing so they’re somehow ignoring the “oppression” and “discrimination” you face? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/113 "2012-10-15T02:14:49Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > For starters, the definitions and explanations of privilege that a quick Google search yields refer to privilege as special rights or permissions that are/were deliberately put in place, officially codified, deliberately preserved, and often deliberately and officially revoked. The word “privilege” in the phrase “privileged upbringing” does not fit those definitions, and is very common and well understood. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/114 "2012-10-15T03:05:10Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > So you agree that “white privilege” is an inaccurate (and possibly also grandiose) term for what it actually means? No, I do not. Is this really that complicated? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/115 "2012-10-15T03:20:02Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > So you agree that “white privilege” is an inaccurate (and possibly also grandiose) term for what it actually means? It most certainly isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/116 "2012-10-15T03:45:13Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > The word “privilege” in the phrase “privileged upbringing” does not fit those definitions, and is very common and well understood. …But it does fit the archetype of someone born with a silver spoon in his mouth and who never truly worked for anything. You know, the exact thing that some people mistakenly take issue with when they hear “white privilege”. > [@brickbacon](#): > > No, I do not. Is this really that complicated? Hey, you’re the one who drew the parallel with the inaccurately and grandiosely named political entity. And no, it’s not that complicated. Throughout today I’ve imagined myself having to say, “Look, I agree with you. You’re just saying it weird.”. I’m not here to debate the merits of the concept of white privilege; this is explicitly a thread about the language used to talk about white privilege. And the language leaves something to be desired. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/117 "2012-10-15T04:37:55Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I am asking is the term itself problematic because it alienates a lot of white people? Yes but I don’t see how it can be helped. At one time White Privilege did in fact mean the sort of privilege that whites enjoyed in Apartheid South Africa or Jim Crow South. And it seems like the entire AM spectrum of our radio waves are dedicated to misinformation (like telling people that this early form of white privilege is the same white privilege that people are talking about today) and making any conversation about race in America an example of blacks trying to get free stuff from whitey again. These days it means something much more subtle. Early in my career, I was seconded to a client in Hong Kong and the thing that I noticed the most was how much people didn’t notice me. It was like they didn’t realize that I was Asian. They didn’t even realize THEY were Asian. Many white folks in America have a blind spot when it comes to racism. They can certainly identify and condemn overt racism but there is a racial advantage that whites enjoy in America that does not arise from racism. THIS is white privilege today. Perhaps a different phrase is more appropriate but I can’t think of a more descriptive word. This society was built to be fair, but it was built by white people and it was built to be fair to them. I don’t know what you can do about it. For me the concept of white privilege is most useful in explaining institutional racism and explaining why minorities still see racism even though we don’t have laws against miscegenation or poll taxes. > [@](#): > > (and Male) I think that women have a better grasp of how racism might still exist even though you can’t legally discriminate anymore because there is a a gender corollary to white privilege. We’ve had much more success closing the gender gap (I can hear some women complaining that this is not true, but it is, just think what that means about the state of the race gap). > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes, they do. But virtually all of that is due to a relative lack of persecution, not because they are “privileged”. A bigoted white cop isn’t going to be handing out money to white people or lurking about them to protect them as some whites-only bodyguard; he’s going to be spending his time harassing (and worse) _non_-whites. “Relatively less persecution” and “privilege” aren’t the same thing. Its not just less persecution, its privilege. Of course not every white man is born on third base but when they get their turn at bat, they three swings and their strike zone is well defined. Thats not the case for minorities. Not because of some racist cop but because everyone (including blacks) have a more positive view of whites, because everything was built with them in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/118 "2012-10-15T04:39:51Z")
It is a very understandable term that means just what you should expect. I think those arguing against the term really need to give some examples of its misuse. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/119 "2012-10-15T05:01:33Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > if so many people are getting confused about what it means, maybe they picked the wrong term > [@Bosstone](#): > > That’s just a theory. > [@Robert163](#): > > it’s not a theory that many people get confused about the term I just want to commend Bosstone on the subtle joke here. Whoooosh, indeed. As for White privilege, of course it exists. Or why else would White people be such whiny bitches when it looks like they’re going to lose it (see: immigration debate, any “English is the language of the US” thread, hijab issue in France) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673/120 "2012-10-15T05:07:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I just want to commend Bosstone on the subtle joke here. Whoooosh, indeed. > > As for White privilege, of course it exists. Or why else would White people be such whiny bitches when it looks like they’re going to lose it (see: immigration debate, any “English is the language of the US” thread, hijab issue in France) So basically, you want to insult me becuase i dont have everything figured out to your satisfaction? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-term-white-privilege-hurt-its-own-cause/637673.md?page=7)