I do not know whether it is the same individual, but The New York Times
[quoted]
(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/world/africa/02libya.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=todayspaper) Essam al-Tawargi as saying, “With our guns, with our potential, we can bring Qaddafi down.”
Yeah, but I guess I’m arguing that by putting himself in a position to ‘have all options on the table’ he’s already committing himself and this Nation to some kind of action.
Whats ‘off the table’ already is ‘America won’t get involved until and unless an overwhelming majority of the worlds nations will unite in common cause.’
You won’t see Saudi Arabia directly help subjected people against an Arab fiat dictator.
We do (barely?) but it isn’t happening any time soon, if at all:
[US Secretary of Defense] Gates: Libyan no-fly zone means attacking Libya
Another link about the debate here; primarily because I loved this quote, in regards to a no-fly zone over Libya:
“So no illusions here,” CENTCOM Commander Gen. Jim Mattis told the Senate Armed Services Committee. “It would be a military operation. It wouldn’t be just telling people not to fly airplanes.”
We shouldn’t, and won’t I believe, intervene unilaterally. I don’t think we should do anything in Libya unless it’s to help rebuild after a rebel victory.
Yes.
This is your common, or garden variety, civil war, and it is no business of ours to offer military assistance to either side. After it’s over, we can assess the appropriate diplomatic and humanitarian response to the winner.
I’m pretty much thinking out loud here but if there has to be any action taken by NATO or the UN is there any practical reason Turkey couldn’t be the NATO nation to take the lead here? If a no-fly zone were to be enforced by the Turkish Air Force with logistical support by other nations, wouldn’t this go a long way toward avoiding the perception of Western, non-Muslim nations meddling in the affairs of a majority Muslim country?
A no-fly zone or targeted air strikes are without doubt a tricky proposition. If they happen I think it is equally likely any action taken by the US or our European allies has a strong chance of backfiring. I could see if Turkey or some other Muslim countries were to be the main players in this it might be more palatable for the people of the region.
I’m typing this late at night so I hope the point I am trying to make is clear.
You said: “I’m hearing noise about a possible U.S. intervention in Libya.” So, we’re supposed to assume that you meant we would do this along with other nations? Sorry, but if you mean multilateral, you need to be more precise.
It might be in the best interest to see that power is transitioned to the right people, instead of just any ponce that happens to be the next up to bat if Kaddaffi is shuffled off his mortal coil.
By right people, I mean whom ever we deem is the chosen one. Not to mention it might be in the best interests of the region to have this dragged out, so as to provide citizens of Syria and Iran with ideas on what to do for the summer season.
Declan
Remember Ahmed Chalabi?
:dubious: Right now Tunisia, still recovering from its own revolution, is dealing with more than 100,000 Libyan refugees. No, it is not in the region’s interest to have this dragged out. That would only discourage revolution elsewhere, if people see what happens when it does not immediately succeed.
Fresh from their own successful dictator toppling, might the Egyptians be willing to see their military invade to depose another? There are thousands of their countrymen stuck in Libya or fleeing from there that protecting them would lend some moral authority to an attack. I envisage a handshake deal with the protestors in the east to get safe conduct through their territory and a push (with air support) along the coast to Tripoli.
Tanzania did something similar to oust Idi Amin in Uganda - invade, overthrow and withdraw in a reasonable time frame. And their rather makeshift army even had to defeat Libyan forces to do it!
However, I have no idea if the Egyptian forces are up to fighting even a brief war hundreds of miles from their own territory. And I suppose it could spark other regional conflicts. Egypt’s top brass might also be thinking of themselves as the new rulers and not that willing to support another democracy movement - they still have their own to cope with!
No, by God, you need to be less of a pedant and simply discuss the damn issue. Nobody else is seeming to have a lot of trouble with it.
I implied no unilateral action. I implied no multilateral action. I merely opened the discussion for consideration of all possible definitions of “intervention.”
I suspect the people can not topple Gadaffy without intervention. It has to be sanctioned by the UN. If they do not sanction. we can do nothing. The political fallout would be huge if we stepped in. No matter how much you think it would be right ,we would be the bad guys and imperialists in the end.
Well, the Prime Minister of Egypt resigned via Facebook.
Does Obama have a FB page? Does the US govt. have one?
How about we just ask, in front of the whole world on Facebook, “guys, we’d really like to help. What do you want us to do?”
I’m only half kidding.
Several American generals playing talking heads on TV are very reluctant to do it. It is an act of war. You have to have air strikes to take out the anti aircraft guns and radar. We don’t know a hell of a lot about Libya. We could send in marine commandos to take out the guns or radar, but Americans would be killed. We do not have a lot of spare soldiers because we have kept them busy for decades.
It would make Gadaffy a sympathetic figure standing up against American Imperialism. We do not have a great reputation in the middle east. That action would not help.
Obama knows we have lots of war lovers who want to attack every time. Repubs who want to be Pres, will claim Obama is dithering when he should run onto Libya immediately.But this is a time for cool heads and observation.
You will note that America has been involved in endless wars against armies of civilians and rebels who have had no airforce or navy. How has that worked out for us? We are losing in Afghanistan . Has the Afghan navy or airforce proved to formidable for us?
We have controlled the skies and waters ,yet went home in shame. If they are willing to pay the price, the anti Kadaffy’s can win.