# Does the US have more psychopaths than other countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474 "2022-07-05T20:11:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/61 "2022-07-09T01:29:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Due to a weird definition of “mass shooting”- I don’t consider a gang drug shoot-out a mass shooting. You do understand that some gangs have White members, right? Maybe you’d like to reconsider? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/62 "2022-07-09T01:35:08Z")
[David Brooks gave this some thought.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/07/opinion/mass-shooters-motive.html?smid=url-share) Seems a reasonable take. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/63 "2022-07-09T01:43:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the USA has the 3rd largest population, _yes?_ They we would expect, just by math alone, for the USA to have more Psychopaths than any other nation that India. I don’t understand your reasoning here. Shouldn’t that be India _and China?_ Did China get left out because of censorship … or something…?? I suppose what you wrote could have been a honest typo/error but I think you made the same error twice in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/64 "2022-07-09T01:57:49Z")
No, it seems to be that he thinks the appropriate comparator to the United States is a communist dictatorship, rather than to other democratic, free-market countries. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/65 "2022-07-09T04:13:45Z")
There are plenty that are both. Mentally ill doesn’t mean completely incompetent, necessarily. Many sociopaths know damned well what they’re doing is wrong, they just don’t give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/66 "2022-07-09T08:20:35Z")
I’m sure he does, but I won’t know since I can’t read the article. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/67 "2022-07-09T12:16:40Z")
I can’t either. But I’d guess that he wrote something similar to what he said on Friday’s PBS Newshour. Mass shootings is the opening segment: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4_qFeFgmKf8/maxresdefault.jpg "Brooks and Capehart on gun violence and abortion access") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_qFeFgmKf8) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/68 "2022-07-09T12:48:02Z")
Here’s an article from NPR which he linked to in the NYT article: > **[Why mental illness can't predict mass shootings](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/why-mental-illness-cant-predict-mass-shootings)** > > More than 90 percent of violent crimes — including shootings — would likely still occur even if every suspect with a mental health condition was stopped before they carried out an attack. Two basic points: (1) mental illness is not a strong indicator for mass shootings, although it can be a factor; (2) talk of mental illness to reduce gun violence is just a dodge to avoid talking about the relationship between guns and gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/69 "2022-07-09T15:10:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I said nothing whatsoever like that. **Only China.** I did not claim India or any other nation be be hiding their stats. **Just China.** Got that? I’m trying to explain to you why your point makes zero sense. Your whole reason for raising the claim that China, somehow magically hides thousands of spree killings (when they can’t hide thousands of videos of quarantine conditions being leaked) was the implication that America only _appears_ bad for mass killings because China hides it’s data. But, America’s stats look appalling even when we’re talking about _per capita_. i.e. when we compare the US to all countries. Therefore, for your argument to hold any water, we need the whole world to be conspiring to make it look bad. “Got that?” > [@DrDeth](#): > > Cherrypicked and thus worthless stats. [comparing the US to developed economies] Again, if we throw in the developing countries too, the data look _worse_ for the US and its liberal gun laws. Because almost all of the countries with the worst gun homicide rates are in North and Central America, countries in close proximity to the US and known to have a large influx of American-made weapons. Anyone coming at this from just looking at the data, dispassionately and objectively, would find it obvious that gun availability is the critical thing here. But it seems this is the one explanation that will be forever off the table for you. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/70 "2022-07-09T15:14:34Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > talk of mental illness to reduce gun violence is just a dodge to avoid talking about the relationship between guns and gun violence. It seems to me that talking about the relationship between guns and gun violence, and talking about “what would make a person do such a thing” (and is there a way of predicting and preventing it) are both worthwhile conversations to have, and neither need come at the expense of the other. I think a lot of people feel that anyone who would perpetrate a mass shooting (like the one in Highland Park) must have something wrong with them—they must be broken in some way. And many of them go on to assume that that something wrong must be some form of metal illness, or their personal definition of mental illness automatically includes anyone who would behave in such an aberrant way. We laymen don’t always have a clear idea of what does and does not count as mental illness, or what distinguishes it from other kinds of “brokenness” (do the professionals?). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/71 "2022-07-09T15:21:39Z")
Yes, his PBS commentary was an abbreviated version of his NYT piece. In a nutshell, he states that mass shootings are an indicator of something in society that has fallen apart and produced a lot of broken individuals, who are unable to connect with others and feel completely alienated and hostile. So they’re not mentally ill, but deeply disturbed. And given ready access to guns, instead of just jumping off a bridge they take random innocents with them. If he’s right, the best thing we could do would be to add a requirement that says that in order to purchase a gun you have to bring a friend with you, to prove you actually have one. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/72 "2022-07-09T17:34:59Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > As it stands, that comparison is, effectively, impossible to make because the world has sort of decided that it’s okay to drive a dump truck through 30 people but it’s a travesty if you shoot 6 people to death. We don’t keep the metrics that we should be keeping. I’m not sure which would you live on, but this is not an accurate description of any planet I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/73 "2022-07-09T18:24:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the USA has the 3rd largest population, _yes?_ They we would expect, just by math alone, for the USA to have more Psychopaths than any other nation that India. Are you math challenged? Are YOU? Do you kniw what Per Capita means? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/74 "2022-07-09T18:27:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > The chart for gun deaths for developed economies, per 100,000… > > Cherrypicked and thus worthless stats. 🙄 Please, not this again. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/75 "2022-07-09T18:56:39Z")
What the fuck does that have to do with it? Yeah, the St Valentines day massacre was not, IMHO a “mass shooting” It was gang warfare. Do you then, think that if only blacks are killed it isn’t a mass shooing? That’s a kinda racist way to think. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No, it seems to be that he thinks the appropriate comparator to the United States is a communist dictatorship, rather than to other democratic, free-market countries. Nonsense. If you think you can trust the “news” coming out of China, that’s fine. Most people don’t. > [@Mijin](#): > > Your whole reason for raising the claim that China, somehow magically hides thousands of spree killings (when they can’t hide thousands of videos of quarantine conditions being leaked) was the implication that America only _appears_ bad for mass killings because China hides it’s data. Nonsense. I am making the point that you can not trust the “official news” out of China. Do you trust it? > [@Mijin](#): > > But, America’s stats look appalling even when we’re talking about _per capita_. i.e. when we compare the US to all countries. Compared to _all_ nations, Americas Murder rate falls almost exactly in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/76 "2022-07-09T19:16:54Z")
Oh, and you guys can continue putting words in my mouth, and not bothering to either read pr understand what I posted, but I am done with this hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/77 "2022-07-09T21:37:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am making the point that you can not trust the “official news” out of China. Do you trust it? Firstly you’re being wilfully obtuse here, because I just explained to you why your point rests on not just China somehow fooling the world, but every other country too. So it’s completely a red herring to try to hold focus on China as if it would help your point. But secondly, while we are all aware how China manipulates and censors the news, there are levels of plausibility here. You can’t say “Every city in China has a Godzilla stomping around, prove me wrong, they censor the news!”. There are thousands of foreign journalists and diplomats working in China (not to mention the vast expat community). The claim that China has a hidden gun violence problem anywhere in the same galaxy as the US is absolutely laughable. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Compared to _all_ nations, Americas Murder rate falls almost exactly in the middle. Firstly we weren’t talking about homicide rate. Secondly, you’re pretending not to get the point. Even looking at just homicide rate (as opposed to gun homicides, or mass shootings) the US is an outlier as being a wealthy country with a very high rate. But when we look at gun violence, all nations (which is the thing we were talking about), we see even poor nations do considerably better than the US. Almost all the places which are worse are…middle-income nations in America’s sphere. IOW they are outliers too, thanks to the illegal trade in American-manufactured weapons. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/78 "2022-07-09T23:24:19Z")
I think we’ve beat this to death. Thanks for the input; I’m outta here. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/79 "2022-07-10T00:14:47Z")
Closed on July 10, 2022, 12:14am UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-us-have-more-psychopaths-than-other-countries/967474/80 "2022-07-10T00:15:11Z")
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