# Does "The West Wing" piss anyone else off? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358 "2002-04-13T01:45:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/41 "2002-04-15T13:09:05Z")
> [@](#): > > It occured to me, watching this show, how easy it is to implant your views on the viewer. You have control of the dialogue, so you can create a character who advocates your views that’s well spoken, with seemingly good arguments - and let him speak them unchallenged. And you can create the opposition’s viewpoint (which you’re also writing) to make them sound like bumbling idiots. Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing while watching the _FOX News_ network the other day … Is it not better to write propaganda and pass it off as an enjoyable, lightweight, hour-long fiction, rather than write propaganda and pass it off 24/7 as the “fair and balanced” truth? Anyway … As always, if a show bothers you viscerally, don’t watch it. (I think the show’s quite OK, but since I don’t watch an awful lot of TV, I often miss it; I guess I probably would watch it more, but I usually forget that it’s on, and I never feel guilty about missing a TV show.) I would venture to say that if _The West Wing_ was about a Republican president whose lackeys and policies were motivated by hard-core Republicanism, nobody would watch. The age of shows like _Dallas_ and _Dynasty_, populated solely by mean-spirited people trying to get over, went out with Reaganism. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/42 "2002-04-15T15:01:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*Law & Order. Law & Order Criminal Intent. Law & Order: SVU. JAG. NYPD Blue. The District. (from the episodes I saw of them) The Shield & Third Watch. Admittedly, I haven’t yet seen the new supreme court shows, as they look incredibly dumb - but I’m sure that the right is at least given lip service on one of them. & that’s just off the top of my head. To suggest that any of the Law & Order shows give lip service to the right is a farce. Dick Wolf, the mastermind of the shows (three hours of TV I don’t miss from week to week, might I mention) is even more unabashedly liberal than Aaron Sorkin. Any position which might be considered conservative is embodied in either ninnies or flat-out criminals. There have been three episodes across two of the shows in which pro-lifers are murderers. A conservative congressman was guilty of corruption which involved multiple police officials. A conservative city councilman murdered his liberal, gay colleague. I could go on and on (like I said, I love the show, hate its politics though) but the L&O franchise is hardly an exemplar of fair dealing with both sides of the political spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/43 "2002-04-15T15:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > **Republicans, these days, might as well be liberal, half of them show no signs of conservatism.** Uhhuh. So did half of them vote against Bush’s big tax cut last year? The heart of American conservatism, right now, is “shrink social programs and government enforcement of corporate regulation by making sure the money for them is never there.” By that standard, conservatism is doing better right now than at any time since the Hoover Administration. Gawd, I hate a sore winner. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/44 "2002-04-15T16:03:09Z")
> [@](#): > > To suggest that any of the Law & Order shows give lip service to the right is a farce. Apparently we’re watching totally different shows here. I like L&O, but every other show is a rant that if it weren’t for those pesky search and seizure and rights of the accused laws, all criminals would go to jail - and those evil, lying, cheating, liberal defense lawyers are making the world unsafe for you and your children by using trickery to set crminals free. The show is completely pro-capital punishment. & I have yet to see SVU even give lip service to a liberal idea. Even the criminals on that show have better morals than that. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/45 "2002-04-15T17:49:09Z")
I dunno, I’d say upholding search and seizure laws and the rights of accused criminals is a conservative thing. In theory, at least, they want the government to have less power over the individual, and more freedom, whereas liberals advocate empowering the government against individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/46 "2002-04-15T18:37:12Z")
Well, I don’t know if I’d make the cut as a conservative, but I’m certainly a Republican. (I’m socially fairly liberal in a libertarian way – do what you want, so long as you don’t infringe on the rights of others, and so long as you pay for it yourself), but fiscally conservative (see above, “pay for it yourself”). And I love the West Wing. I don’t think it’s reality, I think it’s entertainment. And I find it entertaining. I’m generally entertained when witty people flip shit at each other, and there’s a lot of that on the show. I find the characters pretty three-dimensional – sure, the Prez is a genius, but he’s also a blowhard; sure, Josh is dedicated, but he also screws up – but I don’t mistake them for “real life.” They act liberal because in the context of the show they _are_ liberal. It’s not reality, but it’s not supposed to be. This doesn’t bother me, I’m too busy being entertained by exchanges such as this: "BARTLET (after recounting in excruciating detail how to cook a turkey): Were we talking about something? CJ: I don’t know sir, when I came in here - back in the late 50’s - there was a purpose to it but then one thing led to another and I blacked out. I mean, I can hang in there with the best of them, sir but somewhere during the conversation about anise and coreander and the other fifteen spices you like to use to baste a turkey I simply lost consciousness. " ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/47 "2002-04-15T19:30:23Z")
I hate the show as well. I’d hate the show if it was written in a Republican way too… I just hate smugness like you see on this show and so many others (I just want to punch Sam Waterson in the face so bad). What I would like to see is a West Wing that deals with PRACTICAL politics. How it really goes down. Where everything is clear that any supposed idealism in what the characters is saying is just double speak fo their real goals. (Currently in West Wing only the Republicans are like this) Of course the problem with such a show is that we would all probably hate the characters. And of course if you have a totally neutral show everyone will see it as propaganda of the side they oppose. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/48 "2002-04-15T22:35:35Z")
L&O conservative? Hah. I’ve seen at least three episodes in which the Jack McCoy character condemns a person who used a firearm for self defense, and definitely one in which he prosecuted the person for murder. He’s actually said things like (forgive the paraprhrase) “We can’t have people running around with guns to fight criminals.” Another show that pissed me off with that was ER. Here I am watching the episode in which a shooter goes on a rampage in a park and a citizen with a CCW kills the shooter, and Dr. Carter (Noah Wylie) is condmening the guy for killing this criminal. I don’t know if it’s ‘liberal’ slant, but it sure as hell is anti-gun in prime time. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/49 "2002-04-15T22:54:28Z")
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any problem with WW glamorizing politics? Does it bother anyone that the designer fashions, limousines, perks and bennies that are enjoyed on TV are setting the expectations of our civil servants just another notch higher? I’ve been told by a reliable source that the White House is not, historically, a glamorous job. Does it concern anyone that it’s being portrayed as such? (Personally, it doesn’t bug me at all, but someone I know who’s worked in the actual White House is up in arms about it.) ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/50 "2002-04-16T00:15:14Z")
For the record, I’m an anarcho-capitalist from my worn every day tactical holster to my unflinching certainty that Thomas Jefferson was the only US president who may not have been guilty of treason. I like the West Wing. True, I haven’t agreed with a single policy statement that has been spoken on the show, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like the characters. They’re misguided, simplistic little liberal socio-fascist ideologues, but they’re good characters. They’re smart, witty, human, fallable and usually willing to admit and take responsibility for their mistakes. If every overly simplistic liberal (and that’s monotonous) or under-informed conservative (see above) were that bright, there might be hope of getting them to drop their misguided agendae and see the reason behind the idea that personal liberty is nothing to be afraid or ashamed of. Of course, that’ll never happen, but the show is still fun ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/51 "2002-04-16T01:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > **… Yes, the show is biased towards a liberal viewpoint–it probably has to be, since shrinking the federal government makes for poorer drama than championing the rights of the oppressed…** Boy, you’d never guess from this that is was the _Republican Party_ which freed the slaves, and mostly Democratic states and politicians that formed the Confederacy. How ironic! ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/52 "2002-04-16T01:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FallenAngel \ ***…to my unflinching certainty that Thomas Jefferson was the only US president who may not have been guilty of treason.** If there’s a god in heaven, you’ll start a GD thread to explain this sentiment. I mean it. I have to know. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/53 "2002-04-16T03:27:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*Another show that pissed me off with that was ER. Here I am watching the episode in which a shooter goes on a rampage in a park and a citizen with a CCW kills the shooter, and Dr. Carter (Noah Wylie) is condmening the guy for killing this criminal. > \*\* I know, that was so almost amusing prime anti-gun. “So, hey, you know, it’s great that you killed the guy before he could kill Dr. Green’s wife and kid, but… you used a gun to defend yourself!? What the hell were you thinking!!!” ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/54 "2002-04-16T03:39:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FallenAngel \* > \*\*For the record, I’m an anarcho-capitalist from my worn every day tactical holster to my unflinching certainty that Thomas Jefferson was the only US president who may not have been guilty of treason. > \*\* I love you. Marry me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/55 "2002-04-16T03:39:47Z")
Yeah that one made me want to lose my lunch. I haven’t watched ER since, and I used to love that show because before I became an engineer I was studying medicine. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/56 "2002-04-16T03:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lizard \* > \*\* > Boy, you’d never guess from this that is was the _Republican Party_ which freed the slaves, and mostly Democratic states and politicians that formed the Confederacy. How ironic! \*\* Well, it’s not like both parties haven’t completely flip flopped to what they started out as. Ironically, it was Thomas Jefferson who founded the “Democratic Republican” party. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Ash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b3f665/32.png) [@Dragon\_Ash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Ash)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/57 "2002-04-16T03:46:04Z")
I don’t think we need to be worried about being the thought police for ‘undecides who may think they are getting a fair argument’. Let them make up their own minds. If you believe you are only seeing one side of the argument, what makes you believe others won’t as well. And… um, as has been mentioned - Jesus Jumping Christ on a pogo stick, we are talking about _television_, not the schools teaching our children. :rolleyes: Anyone coming away from a _TV_ drama program and deciding to let the show determine their opinions on the content deserves where they end up, and quite frankly will probably be irrelevant as far as the rest of us our concened. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/58 "2002-04-16T04:09:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dragon Ash \* > **And… um, as has been mentioned - Jesus Jumping Christ on a pogo stick, we are talking about television, not the schools teaching our children.** Yeah, it’s not like anyone ever committed suicide because their favorite TV show was cancelled. **cough** [Battlestar Galactica](http://www.kobol.com/Archives/suicide.html) **cough** :rolleyes: (At that loser of a kid, not **Dragon Ash** ) ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/59 "2002-04-16T07:07:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarinth \* > \*\*Law & Order. Law & Order Criminal Intent. Law & Order: SVU. JAG. NYPD Blue. The District. (from the episodes I saw of them) The Shield & Third Watch. Admittedly, I haven’t yet seen the new supreme court shows, as they look incredibly dumb - but I’m sure that the right is at least given lip service on one of them. & that’s just off the top of my head. > \*\* What about the episode where they sued gun manufacturers? There were even bits where characters defended Abner Louima? The show was great for the first few years but has gotten so God- awefull preachy that I just had to stop watching it. Too bad, my father was a homicide detective for a number of years and said that Law&Order was the most realistic show on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2002, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358/60 "2002-04-16T07:54:05Z")
You say “liberal propoganda” like it’s a bad thing… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-the-west-wing-piss-anyone-else-off/103358.md?page=4)