Does this bother you as much as it does me? (John Edwards)

The BBQ Pit
21

That’s just a stupid and lazy reply. Where it is published has no bearing on whether it is true or not. Here is essentially the same thing from the New York Times. Happy?

It it doesn’t bother you guys, thats fine, but suing doctors because a kid is born damaged is not a praiseworthy way to make a living, IMO.

If you think Edwards and his firm took on these cases out of concern for the little kiddos welfare, then you are beyond naive. Doctors and hospitals have deep pockets that plaintiffs lawyers like to go diving in.

22

I didn’t read the WorldNewsDaily thing you posted, but if it said “essentially the same thing” there as it does here, you have vastly overstated the case. This one says that he used the fetal heart monitoring that was done to convince the jury the fetus was struggling, and the physician should have done a C-section. How is that “junk science”?

23

It is if the doctors fucked up. If your kid was damaged by the malpractice of a bad doctor and needed care for the rest of his/her life, would you want to sue? And wouldn’t you want someone like Edwards on your side?

24

No kidding. The NYTimes article is hardly damning. Dude was a plaintiff attorney; they sue people for a living. No doubt a lot of them are sleazeballs but I see little evidence from this article that Edwards was anything more than charming and successful.

If fewer than 10% of cerebral palsy cases are caused by birth difficulties, then I’d counter that by saying Edwards took fewer yet of the cases brought to him, at least judging by what the NYTimes article says.

Lamar, if I may ask, it seems like you’re kinda gunning for Edwards here. If you used to like the guy, why are you so eager to hate him on the basis of two rather questionable newspaper articles? You suddenly seem oddly invested in your dislike of Edwards, and I don’t see why.

(Personally, I just find him bland and uninspiring. But that’s been my opinion all along.)

25

Aren’t you condemning him on rather weak evidence? I mean, if we’re so eager to believe the worst about politicians, then we’ll find a way to do so. But that doesn’t mean they really are bad people - just that it’s popular to hate them.

26

At least he only channels living people, unlike John Edward.

27

You know Lamar, sometimes I wonder if people on the internet are dealing straight with me.

I’m not saying you’re not dealing straight.
But sometimes I wonder if some people claim to be Republican and then act like a jerk with the intention of turning people off from Republicans. I can’t help it, there is a conspiracy theorist in my head. (he was planted there by the Chilean government back in '72)

So when you have an op that links to some place that is different from where you say the link is from, and basically say, 'Oh I’m a Dem but this worries me in some way, I’m losing faith in these guys and basically lay out what the Pubbies are using for as their attack plan on the VP nom of your own party, that little guy in my head starts to twitch.

You know what I mean?

WE ARE IN AN ELECTION CYCLE. PRACTICALLY EVERY NEWS ITEM YOU READ FROM NOW TILL THE ELECTION WILL BE TRYIG TO MAKE YOU VOTE OR NOT VOTE IN SOME WAY.
Have a nice day.

28

Somebody has neglected to read the link provided by Squink in No. 16, above. The case was not about a “bad baby.” It was about preventable oxygen deprivation brain damage suffered during delivery. My friend, you appear to be so focused on your ideology (lawyer = bad) that you are not even interested in finding out what the case you are complaining about is about.

With all the whooping about trial lawyers I can’t but help wonder what the highly paid and talented defense bar was doing while all these underhanded, slimy, conniving plaintiff’s lawyers were busy pulling the wool over the eyes of jurors (people just like you and me) with the testimony of prostitute medical school professors. Do you suppose the defense bar was asleep while all this nefarious going on was going on? Or were they in on the deal, laying down and playing dead while the plaintiff’s lawyers just trooped one phony science theory after another into the jury room?

Maybe somebody who defended the doctor and hospital, or who defended the pool drain manufacturer, ought to be asked if Senator Edwards’ cases were founded on phony science and general flim-flam?

If we are going to talk about the social benefit of lawsuits and whether being a lawyer is an honorable way to make a living, maybe you better give some thought to developing an alternative way to provide for people who have been deprived of a child by preventable professional error, or provide for a child who will live out a full life expectancy but will never acquire the mental or physical skills of a two year old or will require constant nursing car for all their life. In a perfect world that sort of stuff never happens and there is no need for the services of a lawyer to deal with it, but, as you should have recognized by now, this is not a perfect world. As long a people are hurt by other people who refuse to fess up and correct their mistakes there will be lawsuits and as long as that happens the profession of the law is a valuable one deserving of compensation consistent with the service performed.

29

Canada – always first with new trends and ideas!! :stuck_out_tongue:

30

Maybe the bit about sucking the intestines out of little girls put him off? :wink:

31

OK, my curiosity has fired up. One of the reasons stated for disliking lawyers such as Edwards is the amount of money they make. Has anyone any clue how much a really stellar corporate trial lawyer makes? The type of lawyer that if a corporation got sued by Edwards that they would put up against him?

32

Reread what I said. I did not say anything misleading, at all, and I have voted Democratic in every race for national office since I was old enough to vote. You can look at a thread from yesterday morning where I celebrated Edwards’ selection. That was before I found out about his history. I’m still going to vote for him.

I am one of that odd breed that you don’t see around much, a conservative Democrat. I believe in a strong social safety net and equal opportunity for all. Other than that, I’m pretty conservative, especially fiscally. I don’t hold ambulance chasers in high regard, I don’t see them as adding much value to the economy, just siphoning off large ammounts of dollars from it, like a lot of people on Wall Street. I am in favor of tort reform. It bothers me greatly that doctors are dropping their OB pactices because they can’t pay the premiums. North Carolina is one of the states that are in crisis because doctors are leaving.

If you really believe that lawyers like this are fighting the good fight, rather than looking for deep pockets to go after, then fine. You may be right. I don’t think so.

Try googling “c section cerebral palsy” and see how many links are to research versus to law firms.

Oh, I almost forgot.

Poopydrawers.

33

The lawyers that work for the deep pockets, are they fighting the good fight? Or are they just as despicable?

34

Given the context, I assume that by “corporate lawyer,” you mean a defense attorney who represents corporations in lawsuits. (For us lawyer types, “corporate law” means a bunch of boring crap about wannabe business majors who negotiate mergers and fill out government paperwork.)

Anyway, a really top-notch litigator in a top-notch defense firm in a major metropolitan area, with a ton of experience and clients out the wazoo, is probably making a couple million a year. That is nowhere near typical of the profession, of course–I’m talking about the apex of the defense bar. Comparably skilled and connected plaintiff’s lawyers may or may not make as much money, since contingency fee cases are not predictable sources of revenue.

35

So you’re suggesting that expectant mothers in North Carolina have difficulty finding a doctor who is willing to deliver their baby? That there’s an epidemic of women forced to give birth, unattended, in their own beds?

I call poppycock.

36

According to superpages.com there are 1,665 listings for physicians & sugeons in the category “Gynecology & Obstetrics”. Checking random states, that’s 600 more than Missouri; 1,262 more than Nebraska; twice as many as Arizona; 1,373 more than Nevada, and only 110 fewer than Georgia. Yep, looks like a crisis in North Carolina to me.

37

Did I say that? I’m quite sure I didn’t. But the jury might believe you, so I’ll settle. Will $3M be enough for you?

38

From here

*The annual number of settlements greater than $1 million for medical liability cases has more than tripled between 1993 and 2002 from 6 to 19. (N.C. Lawyer’s Weekly)

N.C. Lawyers Weekly reports that the largest medical liability verdicts and settlements have increased significantly over the last decade. The average large medical liability recovery has increased 74% from $1,990,000 in 1992 to $3,480,000 in 2002. (North Carolina Medical Society)

Hospitals in North Carolina have had insurance premiums go up 400 percent to 500 percent in the past three years, the North Carolina Medical Society says. Small, rural hospitals were hit hardest. (Winston-Salem Journal, March 9, 2004)

Liability insurance premiums for North Carolina neurosurgeons increased by 50 percent between 2000 and 2002, according to the American Association of Neurological Surgeons. (Winston-Salem Journal, March 9, 2004)

Obstetricians and trauma surgeons in Western North Carolina are seeing increases in their professional liability insurance rates as high as 50-100 percent, according to Dr. Hal Lawrence, director of the Mountain Area Health Education Center’s Women’s Health Center. (Ashville Citizen-Times, Feb. 8, 2003)

“If we remain in North Carolina we will likely be forced to make the decision to limit procedures which carry high risks (but also are often life-saving),” said K. Stuart Lee, M.D. of Eastern Neurosurgical and Spine Associates Inc. Dr. Lee’s practice saw their medical liability premiums increase 116 percent last year. (The News and Observer, Jan. 26, 2003)

Women’s Care, P.A., the largest independent Ob-gyn physician group in North Carolina, saw its medical liability insurance premiums increase 30 percent in 2003 for almost three times less coverage. One of its obstetricians will soon stop delivering babies, and others are considering following his example, according to the group’s corporate director.
Limiting non-economic damages in North Carolina could reduce overall health care costs by 5-9% through reductions in defensive medicine. A 5% reduction in N.C. Medicaid expenditures would save $270 million per year. (North Carolina Medical Society)

Dr. David Pagnanelli, a neurosurgeon, said he moved to Hendersonville, North Carolina in 2002 because liability costs were too high in Pennsylvania. But they shot up here too – to nearly $190,000 a year – even though there’ve been no successful claims against him, he said. Following his insurance carrier’s advice, Pagnanelli stopped seeing trauma cases. But neurosurgeons are in short supply in Hendersonville, so his decision means patients with life-threatening head injuries have been shipped to other hospitals. (Charlotte Observer, February 11, 2004)

Updated March 15, 2004
American Medical Association*

39

Lamar, you have still not answered my question.

If your child was damaged by a botched medical procedure and faced a lifetime of expensive care as a result, what would you do?

40

I can understand Lamar’s dislike for many of the effects of our lawyer system, and there is no doubt that a lot of bad lawyers are out there, but I don’t see any reason to believe John Edwards is one of the bad lawyers.
The argument seems to be:

  1. There are a lot of bad lawyers.
  2. John Edwards is a lawyer.
  3. Therefore John Edwards is bad.
    That doesn’t seem quite fair. Edwards says that he carefully researched his cases so that he only took on good causes.

He may be lying, but I see no reason to jump to that conclusion.