# Does this Count as a Mass Killing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772 "2018-04-20T13:15:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/1 "2018-04-20T13:15:58Z")
As I keep the Official List of Mass Killings, I was excited to discover a mechanic is wanted by the FBI for the 1996 ValueJet crash. He seems to have signed off that the (chemical) oxygen generators were properly stowed when they weren’t. He seems to have fled to Darkest Peru with Paddington Bear. 110 people died. He is charged with a bunch of crimes, but none of them are anything like homicide. Does this deserve to be included on the 1996 list? 11 May 1996 (110 killed) (Criminal Negligence) ([http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article208110759.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article208110759.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/2 "2018-04-20T13:30:46Z")
IMO since it is not deliberate, no. But it’s your list - include whatever you want. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/3 "2018-04-20T14:54:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > IMO since it is not deliberate, no. But it’s your list - include whatever you want. > > Regards, > Shodan Same thought. Include this and you probably need to include every building collapse and related events where the cause was some sort of negligence. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/4 "2018-04-20T15:08:29Z")
I agree, unless the act was deliberately intended to cause death, it doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/5 "2018-04-20T15:21:56Z")
Yes, I think you are right. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/6 "2018-04-20T19:22:10Z")
Was he hoping that they did blow up or hoping that they wouldn’t blow up? It sounds like the latter so not a mass killer. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/7 "2018-04-21T09:38:52Z")
I am always eager to add an overlooked mass killing from the past. Too many are forgotten. But this one does not seem to meet any sort of requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/8 "2018-04-21T11:54:45Z")
I’m curious as to how you gained the position of having The Official List of Mass Killings. Is it a UN position? Do you get a stipend? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/9 "2018-04-21T22:50:15Z")
Would you count the [Hyatt-Regency disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse) in 1981? The architects approved the fatal change in design over the phone without any review. How about 1979’s American Airlines #191, where the engine broke off because of [poorly executed maintenance procedure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191#Probable_cause) that led to structural failure? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/10 "2018-04-24T03:49:42Z")
Paul, you may want to check out this article from Science News: [Why science still can’t pinpoint a mass shooter in the making](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/science-mass-shooter-psychology-guns-research) (warning, it may require a log in) It seems there’s another person named Grant Duwe (criminologist at the Minnesota Department of Corrections) compiling a list of mass killings. Perhaps you could compare notes. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/11 "2018-04-24T21:13:51Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > It seems there’s another person named Grant Duwe (criminologist at the Minnesota Department of Corrections) compiling a list of mass killings. Perhaps you could compare notes. Grant’s is just “a” list, not “the” list. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/12 "2018-04-24T21:26:39Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Would you count the [Hyatt-Regency disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyatt_Regency_walkway_collapse) in 1981? The architects approved the fatal change in design over the phone without any review. > > How about 1979’s American Airlines #191, where the engine broke off because of [poorly executed maintenance procedure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191#Probable_cause) that led to structural failure? Or this? > **[New London School explosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London_School_explosion)** > > The New London School explosion occurred on March 18, 1937, when a natural gas leak caused an explosion and destroyed the London School in New London, Texas, United States. The disaster killed more than 300 students and teachers. As of 2021\[update\], the event is the third-deadliest disaster in the history of Texas, after the 1900 Galveston hurricane and the 1947 Texas City disaster. > In the mid-1930s, despite the ongoing economic turmoil of the Great Depression, the school district in New Londo... Natural gas has a smelly additive in it now, in large part because of this disaster that killed almost 300 people, most of them children. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/13 "2018-04-25T00:05:06Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > As I keep the Official List of Mass Killings, I was excited to discover a mechanic is wanted by the FBI for the 1996 ValueJet crash. He seems to have signed off that the (chemical) oxygen generators were properly stowed when they weren’t. He seems to have fled to Darkest Peru with Paddington Bear. > > 110 people died. > > He is charged with a bunch of crimes, but none of them are anything like homicide. > > Does this deserve to be included on the 1996 list? > > 11 May 1996 (110 killed) (Criminal Negligence) ([http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article208110759.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article208110759.html)) It doesn’t seem like this happened inside a catholic church so I don’t think it was a mass killing. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/14 "2018-04-25T02:51:12Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > It doesn’t seem like this happened inside a catholic church so I don’t think it was a mass killing. > > Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk (groan) ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/15 "2018-04-25T03:39:45Z")
I wish I could understand just what it is that you get out of this list, OP. It seems too morbid to comprehend, but if you find some kind of satisfaction in it, by all means continue. I really try not to dwell on this stuff too much. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-count-as-a-mass-killing/812772/16 "2018-04-26T17:17:03Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > As I keep the Official List of Mass Killings, I was excited to discover a mechanic is wanted by the FBI for the 1996 ValueJet crash. He seems Excited?