# Does this headline bother you? ("Black" as a noun) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126 "2010-06-22T14:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/1 "2010-06-22T14:52:05Z")
So Yahoo News had this headline today: “Woman, black seek to become firsts in SC runoff”. _What?_ For years now I’ve been told that using “black” and depending on context other group names like that as a noun without “person” attached is not good. (At least in the US - I think usage is different elsewhere.) “He’s black” is okay, “He’s a black” is not. Right? Or am I totally nuts? ---
**Author:** ![JerseyFrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@JerseyFrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyFrank)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/2 "2010-06-22T14:53:58Z")
is it not an adjective? I think the headline works with any adjective that would reasonable describe the woman. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/3 "2010-06-22T14:57:26Z")
> [@JerseyFrank](#): > > is it not an adjective? > > I think the headline works with any adjective that would reasonable describe the woman. Given that the headline is using the plural forms, I would guess that the more grammatical, non-headliney sentence would read “A woman and a black man seek to become firsts in SC runoff.” I think it is suspect. I also think it’s probably a (mostly) innocent victim of the need to cut out extraneous words to save headline space. Someone decided “man” was extraneous. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/4 "2010-06-22T14:58:25Z")
I think it’s headline usage, where you can leave words out if they don’t really add to the meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/5 "2010-06-22T15:06:11Z")
Vile journalism. Expedience tops form apparently. Not so atypical, though. And not quite as bad as a “for sale” ad I once saw which read “White girl’s bedroom set for sale.” ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/6 "2010-06-22T15:06:34Z")
> [@JerseyFrank](#): > > is it not an adjective? > > I think the headline works with any adjective that would reasonable describe the woman. No, it’s a noun there. “A woman”, “a black”. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/7 "2010-06-22T15:08:52Z")
Note the word “firsts” - with an S, plural. Two people are being referred to. One is a woman, the other is black. The woman is not black, and the black person is not a woman, otherwise it would have been phrased differently. She would be the first woman in this position, he would be the first black person. In speech or body-of-text writing, using “black” as a noun like that is probably frowned upon and avoided. Headlines, however, have their own set of norms, and perhaps the main one is to use no more words than **ABSOLUTELY** necessary, and sometimes even fewer than that. You know what it meant, thus no more words are **ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY**. End of discussion, next question please. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/8 "2010-06-22T15:10:26Z")
“A black” just in general sounds really weird to me. I can’t speak to any particular racism aspect, but aesthetically, it just sounds and looks wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/9 "2010-06-22T15:10:44Z")
Yeah, but you wouldn’t say “Jap” to save letters, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/10 "2010-06-22T15:13:12Z")
But how are we supposed to know from reading it that it’s a black man and not another woman who is black? Is man really superfluous? It could be a white woman and a black woman that are running. I think the reason it sounds so weird (to me) is that they’re both being trotted out as sort of “weird” categories. Like, what’s the race of the first woman? Probably white because they don’t mention it. What’s the gender of the black? Probably white. Like white male is the default which sort of gives me a creepy vibe. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/11 "2010-06-22T15:16:08Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I think the reason it sounds so weird (to me) is that they’re both being trotted out as sort of “weird” categories. Like, what’s the race of the first woman? Probably white because they don’t mention it. Well, I don’t think she counts as “white” in the US: her parents are Punjabi Sikhs, so there’s a another political first that going unmentioned in the headline. ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/12 "2010-06-22T15:28:13Z")
The story is about two people who for identity reasons may be notable in a SC politcal race. One person is notable for being female, the other for being African-American. The headline writer has to get the gist of the story into a fairly small number of characters without using slurs. There are many, many non-racist cases where “black” is used as a noun. Search “blacks in America” on Google and you will see how common this is. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/13 "2010-06-22T15:30:17Z")
The plural is different than the singular, IMHO. ETA - and I’m surprised that they didn’t mention Haley’s race, considering that one of our fine state politicians just made national news calling her a “raghead”. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/14 "2010-06-22T15:37:43Z")
When putting that headline in the Google search lots of new outlets picked up the AP story and headline and ran it “as is”, however a couple of news outlets changed the headline to" “Woman, black **man** seek to become firsts in SC runoff”. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/15 "2010-06-22T15:38:08Z")
Actually it bothers me more that headline writers don’t capitalize first letters anymore. But it doesn’t bother me in the context of a headline anymore than it would as a text message. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/16 "2010-06-22T15:52:39Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > When putting that headline in the Google search lots of new outlets picked up the AP story and headline and ran it “as is”, however a couple of news outlets changed the headline to" “Woman, black **man** seek to become firsts in SC runoff”. Yeah, “black” on its own sounds weird and stilted (and, of course, a bit outdated) to me. “Black man” is a much clearer headline. It took me a couple of reads to understand the original headline as written. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/17 "2010-06-22T15:59:06Z")
“Black” as a noun always bothers me, until I think about “white” as a noun and realize _that_ doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s because of a scene title in _Birth of a Nation_, “Disarming the Blacks”, where a couple of Klansmen scare dozens of black rebels into dropping their guns and running away, presumably by dint of their inherent superiority. > [@Giles](#): > > Well, I don’t think she counts as “white” in the US: her parents are Punjabi Sikhs, so there’s a another political first that going unmentioned in the headline. South Asians are typically pigeonholed under Caucasian for documentary purposes, although most people don’t think of us that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/18 "2010-06-22T16:05:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > South Asians are typically pigeonholed under Caucasian for documentary purposes, although most people don’t think of us that way. Really? I thought South Asians counted as Asians. (Although I wouldn’t usually say, for instance, “my friend Tannistha is Asian”, I’d say “my friend Tannistha is Indian”; I am aware that this usage is not universal.) Anyway, the example in the OP sounds weird to me. I don’t know that it’s inherently racist, but it looks wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/19 "2010-06-22T16:11:44Z")
Well, she doesn’t _look_ like an Injun. I’m sure that’s why. (Trust me, to some here she’s plenty foreign. There was evidently a vicious slanderous attack claiming, falsely, that she was a _Buddhist!_ Hide the kids!) ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/20 "2010-06-22T16:18:46Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, she doesn’t _look_ like an Injun. I’m sure that’s why. (Trust me, to some here she’s plenty foreign. There was evidently a vicious slanderous attack claiming, falsely, that she was a _Buddhist!_ Hide the kids!) That was probably someone who had never heard of Sikhism as a religion. (And who, if they watched [Bend It Like Beckham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckham), missed all the religious references. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126.md?page=2)